Can anyone tell me what the harper mage is all about?

[da_deadman]

I don't have MOF and am thinking about joining an online campaign that allows the Harper Mage, but I don't know anything about it?

Can someone post here the details and pros and cons about the class?

I am also thinking about going for either arcance devotee and arch mage with the same character.

 

[Pax]

Lucky you, MoF is the one book that's close to hand for me ATM.

Okay, let's start with entry requirements:

Alignment, any non-evil
Skills, 4 ranks Concentration, 8 ranks Knowledge (Arcana), 4 ranks of any one other Knowledge, 4 ranks Scry, 2 ranks Sense Motive, 8 ranks Spellcraft.
Feats, Alertness, Education, Extend Spell
Spellcasting, able to cast 3d-level Arcane spells
Special, sponsorship by a member of the Harpers, and, approval of the High Harpers.

A for the benefits ... in brief, Harper Mage is a 5-level "short track" Prestige Class. Each level gives +1 effective casting level. Other benefits include a Bardic Lore style ability (and it stacks with Bard levels or Loremaster levels); a free skill focus in any one knowledge skill; a free skill focus feat in (pick one) spellcraft -or- knowledge(arcana); Eschew Materials as a bonus feat; a +2 Insight bonus to all saves against magickal effects; and the ever-nifty "Free Extend Spell" ability.

The last is really sort of the central "power" of the class; a number of times per day equal to 1 + the mage's Charisma Mod, any spell can be given teh benefits of the Extend Spell metamagick ... for free. No level increase, no (for sorcerors or bards) full-round-action to cast it. It just gets the benefits, with no costs or drawbacks.

Base Attack is wizard-esque weak, Will is the strong save and both reflex and fortitude are weak saves. Overall, not a game-braker in terms of power, but potentially very nifty in terms of -style-.

 

[Li Shenron]

Overall, not a game-braker in terms of power, but potentially very nifty in terms of -style-.

Well... don't want to be disagreeing with you Pax but IMHO it is quite the opposite, in the sense that it has a poor style, and a decisive improvement over plain Wizard or Sorcerer. Sorry, it's just my opinion!

Giving up 5 levels of Sorcerer, you lose only 5 levels worth of familiar improvement, plus 1 bonus feat if you are a mage, and 0.5 BAB (stacking math), if that matters. The benefits are 3 feats, and two special abilities. The requirements are almost all very likely to be met by a lot of Wizards (at 8th level if you have only +2 Int), since at least Concentration, Kno(Arcana) and Spellcraft are very common. It seems to me that between taking this PrCl or not there is a clear advantage in the first.

You may be thinking of something else than me when talking about "style": yes, it is a nice combination of abilities, but really nothing new. Well, the free extend is nice, but it doesn't make the whole PrCl a significant path to follow for an innovative PC as many T&B PRclasses are.

I am not sure... it is definitely nice to have a Harpers' arcane spellcaster PrCl but it is just not unique enough... At least it could be still a nice campaign role for a PC.

 

[Numion]

Giving up 5 levels of Sorcerer, you lose only 5 levels worth of familiar improvement, plus 1 bonus feat if you are a mage, and 0.5 BAB (stacking math), if that matters. The benefits are 3 feats, and two special abilities. The requirements are almost all very likely to be met by a lot of Wizards (at 8th level if you have only +2 Int), since at least Concentration, Kno(Arcana) and Spellcraft are very common. It seems to me that between taking this PrCl or not there is a clear advantage in the first.

You forgot the prerequisites... you've blown three feats to get this class. Alertness is crappy, education is crappy and extend spell is below average. As you said that sorcerers don't loose anything by choosing this class.. uh, no - sorcs have so few feats that no-one in their right mind would choose education and alertness. Extend spell is only so-so, on my list at least.

So overpowered this class is not.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

first of all, welcome to the boards da_deadman

secondly, one of things you should know about being a Harper Mage is that you have to be a Harper. the Harpers are a semi-secret (as in - everyone knows the Harpers exist, but no one is supposed to know who they are...) do-gooder organization that has spread it's influence all over Faerun.

this is not necessarily a bad thing, but if played correctly, a Harper in an adventuring group can't let the other members of the know of his or her affiliation (unless the entire group are members), and will be monitored and given tasks to perform by a Senior Harper

some of the flavor text from the PrC: "The Harper Mage has two principal responsibilities. The first of these is aiding the Harpers with spells and arcane knowledge. This aid might include anything from casting spells in a battle in which Harper agents are involved to using divination magic to find a missing Harper to examining a vanquished Red Wizard's personal spellbooks...

The other primary responsibilities of a Harper Mage is to study, record, and pass on ancient lore, particularly that dealing with arcane discoveries...."

...although some study nature, others history, and so on

 

[Li Shenron]

You forgot the prerequisites... you've blown three feats to get this class. Alertness is crappy, education is crappy and extend spell is below average. As you said that sorcerers don't loose anything by choosing this class.. uh, no - sorcs have so few feats that no-one in their right mind would choose education and alertness. Extend spell is only so-so, on my list at least.

So overpowered this class is not.

Yes Alertness is nothing special, but not totally wasted IMHO. I really don't know what Education is. Extend Spell is instead quite useful, always IMHO.

So basically you spend 3 feats to have a benefit of 3 feats. This takes the Harper Mage away even its little improvement...

 

[BobROE]

Alignment, any non-evil
Skills, 4 ranks Concentration, 8 ranks Knowledge (Arcana), 4 ranks of any one other Knowledge, 4 ranks Scry, 2 ranks Sense Motive, 8 ranks Spellcraft.
Feats, Alertness, Education, Extend Spell
Spellcasting, able to cast 3d-level Arcane spells
Special, sponsorship by a member of the Harpers, and, approval of the High Harpers.

Actually in the errata education got removed (cause I think you have to take it at first level), and 5 ranks in Knowledge(local) were added.

 

[SimonMoon5]

Right, Education is no longer a prereq. I think the reason it was removed is that there is almost no reason for a wizard to take Education; they're educated enough already.

Furthermore, *every* wizard or sorcerer with a familiar has Alertness for free.

So, there's only one real feat prereq, and that's Extend Spell.

And, the only skills that most wizards won't already have are the 4 ranks in Scry and 2 in Sense Motive... oh, and some ranks in Knowledge (local). No big deal there.

And while the class might be better than a straight wizard... well, most wizard prestige classes are. Compared to other prestige classes, it's not that exciting. I mean, really, Skill Focus? Who gets excited about getting Skill Focus for free?

Well, okay, my wizard character is planning to take one level of Harper Mage so that he can get a Skill Focus (a knowledge skill) so that he can become eligible to be a Loremaster; then after one level of Loremaster, he'll go back and take another level of Harper Mage for Skill Focus (Spellcraft) to help him qualify for Archmage. But, otherwise, Skill Focus is not too exciting.

 

[Pax]

Right, Education is no longer a prereq. I think the reason it was removed is that there is almost no reason for a wizard to take Education; they're educated enough already.

Furthermore, *every* wizard or sorcerer with a familiar has Alertness for free.

Great, and you lose access to all the Harper Mage PrC abilities (including caster levels) if your familiar strays too far form you.

Virtual feats used as prerequisites have drawbacks you know. 8)

And actually, Harper Mage and War Wizard of Cormyr have spacial abilities that -do- make them somewhat enticing to Sorcerors and BArds -- their "free metamagick X times per day" isdependant on -charisma-.

 

[Pax]

Well... don't want to be disagreeing with you Pax but IMHO it is quite the opposite, in the sense that it has a poor style, and a decisive improvement over plain Wizard or Sorcerer. Sorry, it's just my opinion!

Giving up 5 levels of Sorcerer, you lose only 5 levels worth of familiar improvement, plus 1 bonus feat if you are a mage, and 0.5 BAB (stacking math), if that matters. The benefits are 3 feats, and two special abilities. The requirements are almost all very likely to be met by a lot of Wizards (at 8th level if you have only +2 Int), since at least Concentration, Kno(Arcana) and Spellcraft are very common. It seems to me that between taking this PrCl or not there is a clear advantage in the first.

One special ability is quite minor.

The other is merely an improvement, a limited number of times per day, in how you use an EXISTING (gained via a Feat) ability: Extend Spell.

As for the FEATS ... as others have observed, quite minor feats, really.

You may be thinking of something else than me when talking about "style": yes, it is a nice combination of abilities, but really nothing new. Well, the free extend is nice, but it doesn't make the whole PrCl a significant path to follow for an innovative PC as many T&B PRclasses are.

Style doesn't have to come from powers; it comes form being different. Someone who would follow the path of Harper Mage is likely to be slinging markedly different sorts of spells than someone who chooses Elemental Savant (for one example).