Can Brawling & Combat Martials Arts Feats be combined?

Kor · Jul 31, 2007

Can Brawling & Combat Martials Arts Feats be combined?

Thusly, receiving the +1 to attack and 1d6 damage from Brawling, and the option to deal non-lethal or lethal damage and not provoke an attack of opportunity from Combat Martial Arts?

Kor · Jul 31, 2007

Hrmm, it seems that I am going to answer my own question. The answer is no, as per http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/bp/20060831a

"The Brawl feat is separate from Combat Martial Arts, and the two don't stack."

Does anyone know if there is a way I can gain the ability to not draw attacks of opportunity when I brawl?

kingpaul · Jul 31, 2007

Kor said:
"The Brawl feat is separate from Combat Martial Arts, and the two don't stack."

I believe the stacking has to do with lethal/nonlethal damage. Brawl give you 1d6+Str nonlethal; while CMA gives you 1d4+Str lethal or nonlethal, your choice.

As I rule it (may not be how WotC rules it), Brawl is an unarmed attack. CMA makes your unarmed attacks armed, and therefore, not subject to AoO. Therefore, Brawl is not subject to AoO if you also have CMA.

Likewise, CMA is an unarmed attack. Brawl grants a +1 bonus to hit for unarmed attacks. Therefore, CMA attacks get a +1 to hit if you also have Brawl.

(Psi)SeveredHead · Jul 31, 2007

kingpaul said:
I believe the stacking has to do with lethal/nonlethal damage. Brawl give you 1d6+Str nonlethal; while CMA gives you 1d4+Str lethal or nonlethal, your choice.

As I rule it (may not be how WotC rules it), Brawl is an unarmed attack. CMA makes your unarmed attacks armed, and therefore, not subject to AoO. Therefore, Brawl is not subject to AoO if you also have CMA.

Likewise, CMA is an unarmed attack. Brawl grants a +1 bonus to hit for unarmed attacks. Therefore, CMA attacks get a +1 to hit if you also have Brawl.

This is one of the most common d20 Modern questions, and has been asked (and answered) over and over again. They do not stack at all. You either use a martial arts attack or a brawling attack, not both at the same time. You do not get +1 to hit if you're using CMA, even if you have the Brawl feat as well. You do not get to avoid an AoO with Brawl, ever, even if you do have CMA. The only reason to have both feats is because Brawl is a requirement for Streetfighting (and maybe something about Knockout Punch too).

If you follow the rules for nonlethal damage strictly, Brawl is basically useless unless you have Knockout Punch. If you're using 3.5 nonlethal damage rules instead its much better, but you would need to nerf the effect of "automatic daze when hitting a target's massive damage threshold".

Kor said:
Does anyone know if there is a way I can gain the ability to not draw attacks of opportunity when I brawl?

There isn't. Brawl is about as useful as Creative (Craft [visual art], Perform [dance]) in a campaign

Aussiegamer · Jul 31, 2007

for me you the player bought the two feats and thus should be able to use them.

It is a little then like a matrail arts called drunking boxing.

You get the best conditions of both, but yer the damage does not stack, you take the best only.

This seems to again restrict the games ability to be more open to possibilites

kingpaul · Aug 1, 2007

I found another Bullet Points: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/bp/20040106a

I have to agree with Aussiegamer, you've spent feat slots for both feats. Where they don't coincide (to-hit bonus, armed attack), they should apply together.

Wouldn't surprise me if that's not a fairly common houserule.

Aussiegamer · Aug 1, 2007

*bows*

I feel that the answers are not well thought out, thought they might seem to not be able to work together the use of them together like I said seems to allow for greater flex in the system.

No stacking but you can use the benefits of each.