Can fiendish animals coup de grace?

[Thanee]

That makes me feel bad for every player I've ever seen, and also users of the PHB glossary, because I've never seen a single one of them pronounce it properly. (Namely, the "c" at the end is not silent.)

You meant the "p", right?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pielorinho]

IMO, it depends on whether or not the animal -- fiendish or not, although I like the idea that fiendish beasts are more bloodthirsty -- is within "immediate engagement range" of a still-standing enemy. In other words, if the animal can reach or be reached by means of a 5-foot step, it will continue fighting rather than stopping to finish off a foe.

Usually I agree, although under some circumstances an animal might not abide by this rule. Basically, I think there's nothing preventing an animal from CdGing, but it'll do it only under specific circumbstances--such as being rabid, being fiendish, trying to procure dinner and not considering anything else nearby to be a threat, etc.

Daniel

 

[UltimaGabe]

You meant the "p", right?

Maybe I missed a joke, but no, the "p" is not pronounced. The rulebook says it's pronounced "coo day grah"- well, almost. It's supposed to be pronounced "coo day grahss".

 

[Jeff Wilder]

So yes: the baboon, once its foe has fallen, and assuming the baboon has got a blood-lust going on (and isn't just doing a status-fight), is going to bend over the foe and bite the foe's throat out. While it's bending over the foe, it's not paying attention to other combatants, and thereby exposes itself to AoOs.

I very much disagree that an animal -- even a fiendish animal -- will coup de grace with another foe threatening, or even hostile and within attack range. It has nothing to do with intelligence; it's just not the proper behavior for survival as an animal. (CDG with still-active enemies is rarely the proper behavior for survival at all. Adventurers and villains killing downed foes -- lest they return in the short or long-term -- is the exception, not the rule.)

On the other hand, I'm a lawyer, not a zoologist, and my source is only lotsa episodes of "Animal Planet."

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Usually I agree, although under some circumstances an animal might not abide by this rule. Basically, I think there's nothing preventing an animal from CdGing, but it'll do it only under specific circumbstances--such as being rabid, being fiendish, trying to procure dinner and not considering anything else nearby to be a threat, etc.

I agree (almost) completely. I'm not sure I'd have a fiendish animal's heredity have this automatic impact; as I said, though, I like the idea of fiendish beasts being more bloodthirsty, so I also wouldn't really have a problem with it.

But as for whether animals can CDG, and sometimes will ... absolutely.


Jeff

 

[Urbanmech]

One thing to remember is that fiendish animals have an intelligence of 3 instead of 2. You can then say that this extra malevolent insight they have would let them take advantage of a CdG situation.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

One thing to remember is that fiendish animals have an intelligence of 3 instead of 2. You can then say that this extra malevolent insight they have would let them take advantage of a CdG situation.

Again, CDG is very rarely an intelligent short-term tactic while a battle is still raging. If an animal, fiendish or otherwise, thinks it can win an ongoing fight, it gets in the fray. If it can't win, and has a choice, it will run. If it can't win, and doesn't have a choice, it will either tharn or go down swinging.

CDG while a battle rages is a tactic for psychopaths, megalomaniacs, or those who are fully aware of the power of divine magic to restore a downed foe to fighting strength. Unless you count fiendish animals as "psychopaths," which is at least arguably valid, I just don't think animals qualify.


Jeff

 

[Arkhandus]

Absolutely, animals can coup de grace. Heck, a great many natural predators go for a deathblow right away when they find prey. Tigers pounce and immediately go for the jugular with their jaws. Animals are just as familiar with their most vulnerable spots as anyone else is; they know the throat is vulnerable, the face, etc.

 

[Pielorinho]

I very much disagree that an animal -- even a fiendish animal -- will coup de grace with another foe threatening, or even hostile and within attack range. It has nothing to do with intelligence; it's just not the proper behavior for survival as an animal. (CDG with still-active enemies is rarely the proper behavior for survival at all. Adventurers and villains killing downed foes -- lest they return in the short or long-term -- is the exception, not the rule.)

On the other hand, I'm a lawyer, not a zoologist, and my source is only lotsa episodes of "Animal Planet."

Heh--I'm a humane society educator, so while I'm not an expert at animal behavior, I'm a little more familiar with it than the average bear .

Consider fighting dogs: when a fighting dog gets ahold of an enemy, they'll sometimes stay on the enemy well after the enemy is dead. This isn't a "smart" tactic, but fighting dogs aren't bred to be "smart": they're bred for a psychopathic desire to fight. (Note that this doesn't mean, for example, that all Staffordshire Terriers/Pit Bulls are psychotic: rather, the ones bred by animal fighters are inbred over and over until psychoses emerge). A dog bred for fighting, unless it's specifically and well trained to leave a downed opponent, is very likely to go for the throat of the downed opponent.

Consider rabid animals: rabid animals often display extreme sexual or territorial aggression, with little or no regard for their own safety. A rabid badger might ignore other creatures in favor of mauling the corpse of the first person it got angry at.

Consider normal animals: normal animals are probably not going to be attacking humans in the first place, and probably aren't going to hang around once it becomes clear that the humans are going to hurt them. Lots of the animals that a PC fights, therefore, are not normal, and may be rabid or otherwise loco.

Daniel

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Yes, in theory, an animal can CdG. In practice, this is a very bad idea for numerous reasons.

Any general strategy involving animals performing CdGs must pay the steep tactical costs of attacking an opponent who may well be already dead. I have no problem with such a strategy as long as the DM applies it fairly consistently.

In fact, I see great potential amusement value in using my fallen comrade as bait to gain free AoOs...