Can Harm kill you now?

[shilsen]

... so, Thanee, out of interest's sake, how much damage _did_ you take?

Cynic

 

[Bagpuss]

If you make your save against Harm, and still take 50pts+ of damage, you can still die by failing the death from massive damage save induced by Harm.

 

[Thanee]

... so, Thanee, out of interest's sake, how much damage _did_ you take?

I don't let evil clerics close enough to cast Harm on me.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

If you make your save against Harm, and still take 50pts+ of damage, you can still die by failing the death from massive damage save induced by Harm.

True enough, but not quite the point.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Ah, the good old harm question. I play it as a won't kill spell.

 

[wingsandsword]

No on two points.
- Harm "causes loss of all hit points, as damage, save 1 to 4" (1st Ed. AD&D PHB p. 51).

- Dying at -10 hp was actually a core rule even in 1st Ed. AD&D. The difference is that it only got triggered by a blow that put you at exactly 0 hp (or optionally in the range 0 to -3: 1st Ed. DMG p. 82).

I was talking about Heal as an offensive spell against living targets in 1e, not Harm. As I said, I don't know about 1st Edition, and I don't have a copy of the books. I've just heard lots of stories from old-timers about killing Kobolds, 0 Level Commoners and 1st level Wizards with Heal spells because it supposedly put you 1d4 HP below your maximum so it could kill a target with 4 HP maximum or less.

-10 was a not a core rule in 2nd Edition, it was a completely optional rule (which virtually everyone used), page 104 2nd Edition Dungeon Master's Guide (1995 printing). Of course, it worked differently than it did in 3rd Edition, any Cure spell of any strength only brought the target to 1 HP, no higher, and he could not cast spells, run, attack or benefit from magical healing short of a Heal spell until he had a day of rest (but even with a Heal spell you still can't cast spells until you've rested for a day). Now, every group I played with also ignored that part, and once you were in positive HP you were back in action and didn't lose spells memorized.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I asked wizards and got this answer.

You can never fall below 1 because of a harm spell, if you make your save or not.

 

[Aurio]

I'd say in either case it wouldn't be able to kill, however it's still an extremely powerful spell, 150 damage... no dice, no metamagic feat... and add an empower spell to it and you 225 damage from a 6th level spell! Delayed blast fireball is 7th level and is weaker.

 

[hobgoblin]

hmm, no wonder people think clerics are the ultimate powerhouse, healing, damage dealing that can match a wizard, and no armor penalty...

 

[Thanee]

and add an empower spell to it and you 225 damage from a 6th level spell!

What's random about 10/level?

But yeah, it would be powerful either way, just wondering, if that is an intended change or an oversight.

Bye
Thanee