Can Heal: First Aid be performed on another while Disabled w/o killing you?

[howandwhy99]

Question: The Heal skill First Aid action is a Standard Action. But given enough time couldn't a Disabled character perform it without losing consciousness and starting to die? Are there any official rulings on this? (the SRD had none)

I'm in a bit of a quandry as most of my group just narrowly missed a TPK. Only 1 PC (potentially) died at the end of last session and that was after missing 3 "Recovering without Help" hourly rolls to gain consciousness. 3 of the other 4 stabilized by magic. The 4th stabilized on his own and also made the hourly consciousness roll after 4 hours. (the daily rolls likely won't be necessary). Of the 3 magically stabilized 1 regained consciousness after 1 hour. So he's at negative HP and Disabled (like the other 3 will be when they awake).

Not wanting the Disabled PC to be unable to help his friends (even though only 1 missed his rolls in the end-of-session roll-offs) I was thinking First Aid was meant as more of a combat action. I mean, would it really cause a disabled PC to start dying if they performed it on an unconscious Disabled PC out of combat? My initial thought was to house rule it as a 10 minute action for only 3 characters in this case, but I'd like to back it up with a Sage Advice or some other ruling if possible.

Here's my thinking:
3 PCs stabilized by a cure minor wounds count as "Recovering with Help". The one awakens after 1 hour. The other 2 awaken after 4+ hours which is too late.

The 2 PCs "Recovering without Help" each stabilize before negative Con (house rule). But they are still in danger. "Recovering without Help" means the PCs can still die, only hourly now. They either need magical healing (not available) or "tending" which I take as a First Aid check.

The conscious, but Disabled PC can take 1/2 move and move equivalent actions. Standard actions will begin killing him and no one's around or awake to save him.

One Option: Long-term Care is an 8 or 24 hour action for improved healing rates. Maybe it could be used in place of First Aid and be considered as tending? It is "light activity" (PHB quotes) which I believe refers to the Wizard's needed 8 hour rest period before spell preparation. Could this light activity be performed by a Disabled PC without leading to dying? Will it really count as tending?

Option Two: I've somehow misread the tending description and the conscious character's presence is enough for all his allies.

Option Three: house rule First Aid as an allowably longer non-strenuous action.

As I'm trying to cut down on all the House Rules, I'd rather not not make another.

But I'm also a big softie, and don't want one PC to vainly watch his fellows die because of some ill-defined action or condition.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I don't know, but I can tell you that if you are disabled (at 0 hit points) and you cast a Cure Minor Wounds spell to heal yourself, you still remain disabled. 0 hit points +1 from cure minor wounds -1 from doing a strenuous action while disabled = 0.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I don't know, but I can tell you that if you are disabled (at 0 hit points) and you cast a Cure Minor Wounds spell to heal yourself, you still remain disabled. 0 hit points +1 from cure minor wounds -1 from doing a strenuous action while disabled = 0.

Maybe. But, let me point out that that particular discussion never ends well.

howandwhy99, it seems like you want to make a decision not to kill the PC and just want someone to agree with you. If so, I'm on your side. A TPK achieved in that way sucks more than anything, is totally anticlimactic, unappealing, and will cause a riot in all but the best groups that don't give a crap about stories and roleplaying. Do whatever it requires not to have a TPK. Even having one wandering orc appear and kill the characters would be far better received as a TPK than dying because Heal is a standard action.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Personally, I would rule that 8 hours of light activity would constitute only move-equivalent actions and thus would not cause loss of hp. He could even tend all his comrades without suffering hp loss from the effort (as long as all the comrades are relatively close together). I mean really, he is not changing the bedsheets or rolling the bodies over or anything strenuous is he? He is applying bandages, cleaning the wounds, washing their foreheads and maybe at the worst stitching up a serious wound and none of that is constrained by time like combat moves (always considered at a hustle). For that matter I would also allow a slower First Aid (so it takes him 12 seconds to bandage someone; he isn't worried about stomping that giant ant anymore anyway), allowing him to spend extra time to do something normally considered strenuous to make it non-strenuous. Combat standard actions still take their toll and if more giant ants show up he will be in a pickle. But normally non-combat actions I think could still be done slower: Disable Device could take four rounds to jam a lock, but actually how strenuous is that? Can you not use Diplomacy when disabled? 10 full round actions normally. Take your time and speak only one word at a time and still get that Diplomacy check in but it takes 4 minutes instead of 1. I really don't see this as a house rule. There is no actual rule saying that you cannot do something slower than the "recommended" time or action.

Digging a hole or climbing or running or swimming can't be done slower because they are physical activities that require the production of sweat (thus are strenuous). Of course this is all IMHO.

Ciao
Dave