Pathfinder 2E Healing issues, and multiclassing in 2e?

Thomas Shey

Legend
That's called playing Fantasy Hero, Big Eyes Small Mouth, or Theatrix. Maybe not even Fantasy Hero...

Only reason you routinely avoid dying in fights in FH is the core system is biased to having anyone in armor be knocked out sooner than they die, even with killing attacks.

The idea that a PC can only die for story reasons is just NOT something that has ever been a part of D&D or any tRPG that descends out of it except "maybe" Mutants and Masterminds. But even that is a big maybe.

Its certainly true of M&M3e. There's no mechanical way to die except by agreement. But then M&M has swung far afield from normal D&D derivatives.
 

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Thomas Shey

Legend
Perhaps. But of all the casters out there, the Druid suffers the most for it.

You have to give up all of your max level spell slots to Heal. Maybe also several lower level slots as well. And your Goodberry order spell is subject to GM whim unless you GM allows you to pick berries off of your familiar.

Sorcerer, Oracle, even Alchemist can get better paths to healing - though 'better' here is very minor.

I'm not sure I buy that the Divine Sorcerer is actually better off here, given their limited number of known spells. And until recently the Chirgeon Alechemist was, well, bad. Oracles you may have an argument for.

The problem with a non-Cleric healer is that they end up become almost ONLY a healer. You end up left with your cantrips and... maybe an animal companion or crossbow or something.

It depends quite how much healing you find tolerable. I'd say 90% of the time the group I'm with gets by after combat just off of Medicine and a couple feats. So you only need to prop up characters with in-combat healing, and that's only really necessary with up-level encounters usually. Heck, you don't even necessarily need magic for that if one or more characters is willing to invest in Battlefield Medicine.
 

Andvari

Hero
That's called playing Fantasy Hero, Big Eyes Small Mouth, or Theatrix. Maybe not even Fantasy Hero...

The idea that a PC can only die for story reasons is just NOT something that has ever been a part of D&D or any tRPG that descends out of it except "maybe" Mutants and Masterminds. But even that is a big maybe.
I see the story as what happens during the game, rather than something I've already decided beforehand. So the story becomes that the PC dies in that battle if the dice was against them, they did something stupid, or whatever. And then you weave the story for the player's new PC into that.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
I see the story as what happens during the game, rather than something I've already decided beforehand. So the story becomes that the PC dies in that battle if the dice was against them, they did something stupid, or whatever. And then you weave the story for the player's new PC into that.

Yeah, but there are people who don't want to deal with that. Not that that's a particularly likely risk with PF2e unless things have gone really pear-shaped.
 

Lojaan

Hero
I think the issue here isn't healing. The issue is the encounter - putting a whole lot of creatures that poison against a party without any reliable way of dealing with poison is going to cause problems. Same in 5e as PF2.

Sure, long term there may also be issues but again that is the same as 5e - play without a healer and you will have trouble unless the GM specifically designs the world around that being ok (easier encounters, healing potions everywhere etc...).

If your inventor bumps up their medicine skill and takes medicine feats you'll be fine.

Also, just take it easy on yourself. You're learning a new system. It's going to take a while. Maybe set some ground rules with your players where you can 'do over' or 'retcon' sessions or encounters while you are all learning. Or start an alternate "expendable" party that everyone practices with so it doesn't matter if they all TPK. And they get to try out different classes etc...

I also want to say that the only problem here is that you thought it would be an easy encounter and it turned out to be almost deadly. The actual experience sounds thrilling! Everyone gathered around the rogue, trying to keep them alive, the inventors checks failing ("damnit I can't find a vein!"), the champion crit healing to bring them back from the brink of death... Sounds like a brilliant session to me.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
Yeah, one thing kind of needs to be said here: While the PF2e encounter system actually works (unlike the D&D3e/PF1e one, or, from what I hear, the D&D5e one), there are still going to be cases where the specific composition of an encounter, especially with an off-the-beaten path PC group, is particularly effective or ineffective. As an example fast moving opponents can be a serious problem for a party that is light on tanks (i.e. no Champion, Fighter, Barbarian or the like) because its hard for low hit point targets to get swarmed (AC is less of an issue in PF2e because the gap between top and bottom isn't usually strong).
 
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Dalamar

Adventurer
This is quite a stream of unlucky roles, and perhaps as the DM I shouldn't have had them fight something with poison (they rolled a 4 on d20 to see what they would fight, and 6 -1 CR compys seemed merciful based on that)
I'm coming in a bit late, but I'll add that six compsognathus isn't exactly an easy fight for the party. Based on the encounter-building rules, as creatures of the party's level -2, they're each worth 20 XP, so six of them adds up to 120 XP, making this encounter roughly halfway between moderate (100 XP for a party of five) and severe (150 XP for a party of five).

The definitions of encounter difficulties tell us that a moderate encounter is "a serious challenge to the characters, though unlikely to overpower them completely. Characters usually need to use sound tactics and manage their resources wisely to come out of a moderate-threat encounter ready to continue on and face a harder challenge without resting", while a severe encounters are "the hardest encounters most groups of characters can consistently defeat. These encounters are most appropriate for important moments in your story, such as confronting a final boss. Bad luck, poor tactics, or a lack of resources due to prior encounters can easily turn a severe-threat encounter against the characters, and a wise group keeps the option to disengage open."

To me, something between these two descriptions sounds like exactly what you had, compounded by bad luck.
 

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