Can human arcane spellcasters wear armour?

[Lanefan]

OTHER: Flat "no" unless the armour has been specifically enchanted to allow its wearer to cast out of it...such armour would be quite rare and *very* expensive.

Lanefan

 

[Set]

I voted 'other.'

In 3.5, Sorcerers and Wizards can't *normally* cast spells effectively in armor, barring the use of the Still Spell feat and / or special armor (mithral, twilight special property, etc.), and often a class or feat to give them proficiency in whatever armor types they want to wear.

Arcane-casting Bards, Assassins, Warmages, Dread Necromancers, etc. *can* wear certain types of armor, and those with the Battle Caster feat, or access to Twilight armor, or Mithral armor, or the Still Spell feat, can often go even further.

Even just using core, and no splat material, there are arcane caster Bards and Assassins wearing armor, as well as reduced ASF from mithral, or none at all from spells with no Somatic components (normally, or through Still Spell).

It's absolutely part of the D&D genre, and has been since 1st edition, with it's elven fighter / magic-users in their elven chainmail. (From before that even, since the Elf 'class' was in basic D&D!)

The whole 'iron disrupts arcane magic' thing is bogus. Magic-users have never been faery creatures, and even if they were, this is D&D, where wrapping a Pixie in 70 lbs of cold iron manacles and chains does *nothing* to prevent it from using it's magic anyway!

Church bells don't break a magic-users concentration and make them flee, and you can't damage them by stabbing their footprints with an iron nail, either. None of that stuff is relevant to D&D conceptions of arcane magic use.

If I *want* to play a game where magic is fey-touched and cold iron and church bells and obscure rituals (such as offerings of food or invitations into the home) can affect wizards, I can do this, but it's not something that's written into the game.

Armored magic-users have been around since 1st edition. Some sort of armor-wearing arcane spellcaster (magic-user, power-thrower, whatever) will no doubt be around in 5th edition as well.

 

[The Green Adam]

Oh why the heck not.

That's it. That's pretty much my whole argument.

I don't play D&D (in any form) anymore these days and I'm not regretting my decision one bit. Too many arbitrary limitions.

I know Magi in Ars Magica can wear armor if they want, with limitations only for it weight/encumberance. If you didn't make your Magi strong, don't load him up with heavy, metal plates as protective clothing. Simple. No major rule mechanic needed.

There rarely ever is.

AD

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Call me weird, but if we're talking just fluff, I like the idea of certain materials blocking magic, and iron is one that classically works against the supernatural.

 

[Vegepygmy]

I voted "Other" because I didn't see an option for "Yes, but even light armor impairs casting (unless you specialize)."

You know, the normal 3.5 rules.

 

[NerfedWizard]

Vegepygmy - the option about heavy armour specifies heavy armour because the idea is that it's the encumbrance factor of the armour which causes a problem. Strictly speaking you're right though, I should have stated "YES - but due to encumbrance, armour impairs spellcasting (unless you specialise)" - having said that, D&D 3.5 rules requiring you to use up higher level spell slots via Still Spell - they really nerf the caster.

 

[NerfedWizard]

...For one, Heavy armor is "Heavy". A Wizard wearing heavy armor (whether proficient or not) isn't going to suddenly put it on just before or just as combat begins. He'll have to wear it all of the time. If he's not used to wearing armor (i.e.: not proficient), he is going to be in a constant state of fatigue. Not only would it be hard to perform "gestures", but even breathing becomes difficult after a time.

Even the best made, fitted, master work armor, weighs in at about 45 to 50 pounds. ... Someone in a combat position would be used to it (proficient). Without being used to wearing it, it would make a big difference in everything you do, not just hand gestures.

Surely after a few weeks' solid adventuring in metal armour - even just trekking around the hills to reach your dungeon destination - will be plenty of time to get used to wearing the armour.

And in real life, I've worn heavy chain which weighed in at 29lb or so (hauberk + coif) - and plate greaves weigh almost nothing. Granted, modern manufacture might be slightly better - but basically wearing chainmail with leg greaves isn't too bad even for a whole day spent dungeoneering in a caves environment, occasionally hitting things with latex weapons. The effect on your fighting speed and stamina of the weight of actual metal weapons apparently eclipses the effect of the weight of armour, even heavy armour. I've never tried full plate, but really, I just don't buy the idea that you need to be a super-specialised hero to even move in heavy armour. I don't know about your kevlar vest which weighed 17lb - maybe it was particularly tight or constrictive? My chainmail weighs 29lb and is fine for an 8-hour day when I'm even semi-fit, and I'm not exactly a man mountain.

 

[Switchblade]

I understand your reasoning but I don't completely agree with this. Heavy armor does limit more than just things requiring manual dexterity. For one, Heavy armor is "Heavy". A Wizard wearing heavy armor (whether proficient or not) isn't going to suddenly put it on just before or just as combat begins. He'll have to wear it all of the time. If he's not used to wearing armor (i.e.: not proficient), he is going to be in a constant state of fatigue. Not only would it be hard to perform "gestures", but even breathing becomes difficult after a time.

Even the best made, fitted, master work armor, weighs in at about 45 to 50 pounds. By comparison, a modern Interceptor Kevlar Vest weighs in at about 17 lbs., and brother, let me tell you - after a day (or more) of wearing it, your neck and shoulders will be sore and even breathing can start to be a chore. Now granted, I was in aircraft maintenance in the Air Force, so other than exercises, or when outside at deployed locations, I really didn't have to wear it that often, so I could be considered non-proficient. Someone in a combat position would be used to it (proficient). Without being used to wearing it, it would make a big difference in everything you do, not just hand gestures.

Difficulty breathing? Not in my experience, I've never noticed any breathing difficulties whenever I've worn mail or a breast plate. (As I'm asthmatic it is something I watch out for) Mail hangs loose so does not constrict the chest at all and breast plates should not press against the chest that tight. You are more likely to restrict your breathing by over tightening your surcoat, arming jack or gambeson than from your metal armour. I only wear stuff like this a few weekends of the year but I'm hardly proficient but I don't find they impede me in the short term in either weapon speed, reactions or anything else, I just get tired a LOT faster (and can't turn very well when in a flat sprint, not that I ever run away )

I think your experience with the kevlar vest is more because it is (I presume - please correct me if wrong) it is strapped in for a tight fit round the chest which doesn't apply to many dark age armours.

 

[Switchblade]

That's it. That's pretty much my whole argument.

I don't play D&D (in any form) anymore these days and I'm not regretting my decision one bit. Too many arbitrary limitions.

I know Magi in Ars Magica can wear armor if they want, with limitations only for it weight/encumberance. If you didn't make your Magi strong, don't load him up with heavy, metal plates as protective clothing. Simple. No major rule mechanic needed.

There rarely ever is.

AD

In ars that can be got round with some Muto Terram or Muto Corpus quite simply. The finesse/targetting for having a great helm (full armour) is just a little more tricky to get round.

 

[Phaezen]

Other.

It depends on the campaign and setting really. I have no problem with some wizards (mainly the stay at home tower dwelling sages) not touching armour, but then having adventuring/war wizards striding through the battlefield in appropriate armour for the role they are fulfilling.

Besides if clerics can, wizards shouldn't have an issue with it.

Phaezen