D&D 5E Can I use action surge in the middle of another action (between attacks when attacking with extra attack)?

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Stating the group/DM decides is not the same as saying that RAW does not allow it.
Um, correct. That's why I said in that post you just quoted, "DM/group decides and RAW doesn't allow it." I wouldn't have the "and" there if they were the same. I've said both of those things numerous times in this thread. One thing I've never said, though, is that RAW disallows it.
 

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James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
I'm reminded of the Bladesinger Extra Attack debate. The rule says you can replace an attack with a cantrip. All stop.

But then you have people going "but wait, what about Mending? Surely that's not allowed!".

Well of course it is, the Bladesinger's Extra Attack says so! But because there's no explicit language allowing you to alter the casting time, you have debate, even though for the feature to work, it has to alter the casting time of a cantrip...
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I'm reminded of the Bladesinger Extra Attack debate. The rule says you can replace an attack with a cantrip. All stop.

But then you have people going "but wait, what about Mending? Surely that's not allowed!".

Well of course it is, the Bladesinger's Extra Attack says so! But because there's no explicit language allowing you to alter the casting time, you have debate, even though for the feature to work, it has to alter the casting time of a cantrip...
Why would it have to alter the casting time to work? You can keep replacing your extra attack with casting the cantrip for the 10 rounds it takes to cast mending. It's non-optimal, but it works just fine with the RAW of the spell and of the Bladesinger ability.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Why would it have to alter the casting time to work? You can keep replacing your extra attack with casting the cantrip for the 10 rounds it takes to cast mending. It's non-optimal, but it works just fine with the RAW of the spell and of the Bladesinger ability.

Longer Casting Times​

Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so. If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot. If you want to try casting the spell again, you must start over.

The Bladesinger ability says "Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks." Not "you can start to cast and continue casting a spell in place of one of those attacks".

Since the Bladesinger ability is already reducing the cast time of cantrips (a single attack < an action), my argument is that since the feature does not have explicit language limiting it to the use of single action cast cantrips, it easily be read as "all cantrips are reduced to a 1 attack cast time".
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I'm reminded of the Bladesinger Extra Attack debate. The rule says you can replace an attack with a cantrip. All stop.

But then you have people going "but wait, what about Mending? Surely that's not allowed!".

Well of course it is, the Bladesinger's Extra Attack says so! But because there's no explicit language allowing you to alter the casting time, you have debate, even though for the feature to work, it has to alter the casting time of a cantrip...
Doesn’t sound like it works that way to me, but that’s a different thread IMO.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

Longer Casting Times​

Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so. If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot. If you want to try casting the spell again, you must start over.

The Bladesinger ability says "Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks." Not "you can start to cast and continue casting a spell in place of one of those attacks".

Since the Bladesinger ability is already reducing the cast time of cantrips (a single attack < an action), my argument is that since the feature does not have explicit language limiting it to the use of single action cast cantrips, it easily be read as "all cantrips are reduced to a 1 attack cast time".
If you want to infer that it speeds things up, you can. It doesn't say it does, though, which means that according to the game designers, it doesn't. That's how you get See Invisibility not removing the disadvantage to hit the target conferred by being invisible. It makes sense to infer that it removes the disadvantage, and that's how I certainly play it, but according to the folks that made the game, since it does not say it removes the disadvantage, it doesn't.

That means that since the bladesinger ability doesn't say it speeds up spells with longer casting times, it doesn't.
 

ezo

Adventurer
Saw this today... boy does it resonate or what? :D

1707779763290.png
 

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