Can illusions be used to provide a flanking bonus?

[Keith]

Hello!

I have a question: do convincing illusions of opponents in a position where they would threaten if they were real provide a flanking bonus for opponents that actually are real (and in a suitable position relative to the illusion- opposite sides of a PC or monster)?
I’d appreciate any rules on this that I have missed, but also any insights in general. Thanks very much!

 

[Gnome]

I don't have a ready rules reference to prove it, but common sense would tell me that falnking would work here, because the foe has to divide his attention between the illusion and real creature. The same would apply for two illusions in flanking positions around a foe so long as he believes both of them.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I would say Yes, but being threatened by an illusion would count as "interacting" with that illusion IMO, so the intended victim automatically gets a save. (And more saves in following rounds, if he attacks it, etc.)

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

I don't think that illusions do. If they're partially real or can deal damage then they provide flanking. I'm pretty sure that I've read something to that effect anyway. I'll look around.

 

[Rystil Arden]

There is an Illusion spell (probably Wizards-published though I don't remember where I saw it--but most of my spell-books are from Wizards) whose effect is to cause an opponent who fails the save to believe themselves flanked so that the caster or an ally can get the +2 bonus and strike with Sneak Attack. That at least implies the precedent that being flanked is a mental state of creatures with a facing who have to divert attention between opponents (which is why round things like oozes can't be flanked) rather than being a physical state of having two living creatures lined up on either side.

 

[dcollins]

I'd allow it. That's clever.

 

[AuraSeer]

The rules on illusions seem to leave a lot to the DM. This topic has come up before, and there seems to be no explicitly clear answer.

IMC, if you fail the save against an illusionary creature, it has the same combat effects as a real creature. It can flank you, it blocks your movement unless you Overrun, and so forth. Succeeding on the Will save means you can treat the creature's space as empty.

 

[Mahali]

Hello!

I have a question: do convincing illusions of opponents in a position where they would threaten if they were real provide a flanking bonus for opponents that actually are real (and in a suitable position relative to the illusion- opposite sides of a PC or monster)?
I’d appreciate any rules on this that I have missed, but also any insights in general. Thanks very much!

RAW - No.

Illusions aren't creatures, can't harm, don't threaten, and therefor can't flank.

Note: If you allow illusions to flank everyone around the illusion who might be threatened gets a saving throw every round as they are interacting with it.

 

[MerakSpielman]

The rules are exceptionally clear on this subject. They just don't make logical sense.

SRD:

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.

First: An illusion does not threaten an area.
Second: An illusion is not a character or creature.

The problem is that whether or not a creature is flanked has absolutely nothing to do with the perceptions of the creature in question, by the rules.

Also, by an interesting coincidence, if two allies are both invisible, and both move to opposite sides of a creature, and both attackers are unaware of each other AND the creature is unaware of either of them, they still get their flanking bonus.

edit: You also still get your flanking bonus if the creature you're attacking is helpless or asleep.

It makes absolutely no sense.

It's the way it is.

 

[two]

The rules are exceptionally clear on this subject. They just don't make logical sense.

SRD:


First: An illusion does not threaten an area.
Second: An illusion is not a character or creature.

The problem is that whether or not a creature is flanked has absolutely nothing to do with the perceptions of the creature in question, by the rules.

Also, by an interesting coincidence, if two allies are both invisible, and both move to opposite sides of a creature, and both attackers are unaware of each other AND the creature is unaware of either of them, they still get their flanking bonus.

edit: You also still get your flanking bonus if the creature you're attacking is helpless or asleep.

It makes absolutely no sense.

It's the way it is.

What he said.

The RAW is absolutely clear. Illusions can't help to flank.

Because flanking is all about the "thing" on other other side of you being able to attack; it matters not at all what the guy in the middle (the flankee?) thinks.

If you allowed an illusion to CAUSE flanking, you could hardly argue against a PC who said "I think the visible orc on one side of me is an illusion, and I'll ignore it, disallowing his rogue-friend on the other side of me with a higher initiative to sneak attack."

Believe or not beleive; it just doesn't matter. Illusions can't help to flank. And you can't "believe" a real enemy is an illusion to nullify flanking bonuses.

Flanking is a very simple mechanic that can be very clearly stated and which is not logical in all respects. That's the price of simplicity. It works 95% of the time OK, so -- deal with it, I guess.