D&D General Illusionists better in 2024

[Zuranthium]

Semi real creatures and objects has been Illusion magic for 40 years? Semi illusory creatures and objects were created by illusionists back in AD&D

That's not how it should be. That's literally not the definition of an illusion.

A master illusion caster is Iris from the Xanth series. Anything else is something different. A half-illusionist, half-summoner (but actually not even that, since you can still use all the other schools of magic as a 5E caster).

The entire design of casting subclasses in 5E is trash, especially for Wizards. A much better design is school specialization blocking off another school of magic, to give a bonus to the chosen school. It should also be possible to block off as many schools as you want, gaining a bonus each time. Thus:

A full Illusionist can use only that school, and should gain 7 benefits to Illusion magic in return for losing 7 other schools. Or if you want to be "semi real illusionist" that would be an Illusionist with 2 or 3 less tiers of specialization into that school, combined with Summoning Magic at tier 2 or 3.

 

[Neonchameleon]

So caught up in edition talk! I forgot 14 can be more than a year!

The no components element of psychic spells is cool and the minor spells you mentioned at will are handy. Though Invisibility is only in dim light and only on yourself. They also use up a invocation each.

I guess I struggle to get past the 2 spells per short rest bit. It’s why I’ve never got on with them. Every time I’ve seen Warlocks in play they seem to rely on a pact weapon for combat or eldritch blasting - neither of which feel very Illusionist to me.

Bonus action minor illusion is a game changer for me at all levels of play.

So what do your illusionists actually do from round to round other than create Illusionary shrubs to hide in?

For how an illusionist attacks by default I see two basic options - psychic damage or weapons. GOOlock Eldritch Blast is psychic, making it one of basically three choices for an attack cantrip; the other two options are Mind Sliver and Vicious Mockery (the latter not being a wizard cantrip) and none of these are pure illusions. I don't see Mind Sliver as notably conceptually better than a simple psychic attack (which is what the GOOlock psychic Eldritch Blast is).

The other option is of course cast a battlefield blanket illusion. And the GOOlock can cast a new Silent Image over the central melee every turn to shroud their allies (who knows what's coming); the wizard is fast going to run out of slots if they try that.

I just find being able to cast as many 15 ft illusions as you like (but one at a time) more illusion-y than being able to cast small illusions fast. But accept ymmv

And then there's Disguise Self. Being able to change your appearance on a whim or play Bugs Bunny type farces is something the 2024 illusionist lost in favour of pseudo-summons.

 

[AnotherGuy]

The entire design of casting subclasses in 5E is trash, especially for Wizards. A much better design is school specialization blocking off another school of magic, to give a bonus to the chosen school. It should also be possible to block off as many schools as you want, gaining a bonus each time.

I enjoy the former (1e/2e's opposition schools), not so much the latter as it likely leads to more game-breaking options.

 

[TheSword]

That's not how it should be. That's literally not the definition of an illusion.

A master illusion caster is Iris from the Xanth series. Anything else is something different. A half-illusionist, half-summoner (but actually not even that, since you can still use all the other schools of magic as a 5E caster).

The entire design of casting subclasses in 5E is trash, especially for Wizards. A much better design is school specialization blocking off another school of magic, to give a bonus to the chosen school. It should also be possible to block off as many schools as you want, gaining a bonus each time. Thus:

A full Illusionist can use only that school, and should gain 7 benefits to Illusion magic in return for losing 7 other schools. Or if you want to be "semi real illusionist" that would be an Illusionist with 2 or 3 less tiers of specialization into that school, combined with Summoning Magic at tier 2 or 3.

Cool. I respect your very restrictive version of what you think illusions should be but I’m less interested in what illusion should be rather what it is now!

Wizards in D&D have never been exclusive. They flirt outrageously with spells of all shapes and schools. Even when schools were barred they still could use most of the others. I’m ok with that. House rule as you like.

I think you’re also underestimating how non illusions and illusions would complement each other.

 

[Horwath]

A full Illusionist can use only that school, and should gain 7 benefits to Illusion magic in return for losing 7 other schools.

If I wanted only one trick in my arsenal of abilities, I would play champion fighter.

 

[TheSword]

So what do your illusionists actually do from round to round other than create Illusionary shrubs to hide in?

For how an illusionist attacks by default I see two basic options - psychic damage or weapons. GOOlock Eldritch Blast is psychic, making it one of basically three choices for an attack cantrip; the other two options are Mind Sliver and Vicious Mockery (the latter not being a wizard cantrip) and none of these are pure illusions. I don't see Mind Sliver as notably conceptually better than a simple psychic attack (which is what the GOOlock psychic Eldritch Blast is).

The other option is of course cast a battlefield blanket illusion. And the GOOlock can cast a new Silent Image over the central melee every turn to shroud their allies (who knows what's coming); the wizard is fast going to run out of slots if they try that.

I just find being able to cast as many 15 ft illusions as you like (but one at a time) more illusion-y than being able to cast small illusions fast. But accept ymmv

And then there's Disguise Self. Being able to change your appearance on a whim or play Bugs Bunny type farces is something the 2024 illusionist lost in favour of pseudo-summons.

Those 15ft images are only visual. No other senses. That is a massive limiting factor on a true Illusion master.

I’ve been giving some thought about the kinds of things I see illusions as being for. There are already good guides out there but the ability to stack a non-concentration image and sound on top of another spell in the same round has a fair bit of merit I think.

In fact, in preparing for that I’m pretty amazed by how many duration spells (in some cases) very long ones exist in the Illusion school that don’t require concentration.

 

[Neonchameleon]

That's not how it should be. That's literally not the definition of an illusion.

A master illusion caster is Iris from the Xanth series. Anything else is something different. A half-illusionist, half-summoner (but actually not even that, since you can still use all the other schools of magic as a 5E caster).

The entire design of casting subclasses in 5E is trash, especially for Wizards. A much better design is school specialization blocking off another school of magic, to give a bonus to the chosen school. It should also be possible to block off as many schools as you want, gaining a bonus each time. Thus:

A full Illusionist can use only that school, and should gain 7 benefits to Illusion magic in return for losing 7 other schools. Or if you want to be "semi real illusionist" that would be an Illusionist with 2 or 3 less tiers of specialization into that school, combined with Summoning Magic at tier 2 or 3.

If you want a limited caster play a sorcerer, a bard, or a warlock. And pick a list of spells that suits your conception of your character. Some concepts for illusionists include enchantments, others don't.

Wizards being the school specialists is bad legacy design; the wizard's big thing is spell versatility and being able to learn huge varieties of spells. Wizard subclasses should be things like Loremaster (not Divination Specialist) and Cursebreaker (not Abjuration Specialist)

(On a tangent this is why I hate what they did to the Aberrant mind in the 2024 update; if people want to play it as a tentacle-free psion they should be able to swap out spells like Hunger of Hadar)

 

[Horwath]

(On a tangent this is why I hate what they did to the Aberrant mind in the 2024 update; if people want to play it as a tentacle-free psion they should be able to swap out spells like Hunger of Hadar)

this is one thing I will be keeping from Tasha's, the non-ability to switch those(mostly bad) spells is a dealbreaker for that subclass.

also Twin metamagic, it was the ONLY thing that sorcerers could say to wizards; I'm better at this!

 

[Neonchameleon]

Those 15ft images are only visual. No other senses. That is a massive limiting factor on a true Illusion master.

Major image exists. This is minor stuff done in a hurry. To add special effects layer on the cantrips. Yes I've used Thaumaturgy as rhythmic pounding of the earth shaking before casting the illusion.

I’ve been giving some thought about the kinds of things I see illusions as being for. There are already good guides out there but the ability to stack a non-concentration image and sound on top of another spell in the same round has a fair bit of merit I think.

In fact, in preparing for that I’m pretty amazed by how many duration spells (in some cases) very long ones exist in the Illusion school that don’t require concentration.

Don't forget Upcast Major Image at L4 (an excellent change). And to me that's where illusions get serious.

 

[Neonchameleon]

also Twin metamagic, it was the ONLY thing that sorcerers could say to wizards; I'm better at this!

Fortunately the sorcerer is no longer so weak that it needs that. And old twin was OP (which it needed to be to carry the class)