Can the story be too complex?

[Abraxas]

A story can definitely be to complex. Especially when the DM forgets that in addition to having all the information, he actually made it all up. Sometimes thats the problem. DMs either forget to provide a detail that the players need to make sense of what's going on or make a leap of logic, skipping details, creating a conclusion the players can't arrive at.

One other thing to add, How much game time do you want your players to spend taking notes and keeping track of complex plots? There was a time when I kept track of everything, absolutely everything - but it meant I spent a lot of game time keeping notes and not really playing - and a lot of those notes never lead to anything of importance to the other players. I've gotten tired of it and just don't do it anymore.

 

[Tigerbunny]

Complexity is in the eye of the beholder. Some players will take this kind of information density and use the heck out of it, but in my experience that's actually pretty rare. Players say they want a complex, intrigue-filled plot full of scheming NPCs and rich, detailed setting and history, but how many of them then do things like take notes, make charts, etc.? Not too many.

What most "complexity" players want is the FEEL of a complex world, but spoon-fed to them in bite-size chunks that don't demand too much of their attention. They want the DM to lead them by the nose without ever letting them notice that they're being led. Personally, I think this is a cr*p social contract and have sworn not to be party to it again, but it does seem to be the expected thing in some groups.

I generally recommend that the complex-ness be ramped up very slowly, and that you stop adding to it as soon as you sense any loss of interest or flagging of player effort.

My data point,

Mark

 

[Halivar]

Stories? Is that what happens in between dungeons?

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Depends really on your players and how often you play the game. In my old campaign the players couldn't put two and two together for the life of 'em. So I generally had to simplify and help with the plot.

It sounds to me that your players said they wanted one thing but really wanted something else.

 

[Gizzard]

What I've noticed, though, is that the group rarely takes notes, and as a result confuses who the NPCs are and what their motives/allies/enemies are all the time. Having spent so much time crafting a more roleplay-focused storyline as requested, I'm somewhat nonplussed.

This kinda sums it up; they just arent going to be able to play an faction-based city adventure without being able to remember who is who.

Btw, I ended up in your situation after running a couple of Freeport modules, my solution was to have one of the factions send the party out into the wilderness in search of a dungeon which might contain an important artifact. And, incidentally, many monsters to slay.

 

[The Shaman]

Can a story be too complex?

Yes.

What most "complexity" players want is the FEEL of a complex world, but spoon-fed to them in bite-size chunks that don't demand too much of their attention. They want the DM to lead them by the nose without ever letting them notice that they're being led.

I agree with Tigerbunny.

Heroic fantasy and pulp swords 'n' sorcery each thrive on meaty action and while betrayal and intrigue are common elements, the plots are far less involved than even a standard "whodunit?" for the most part. Too much subtlety and complexity runs against the grain. If the players are mystery buffs, then twisted, intricate plotlines will be well-received - if not, it may frustrate or bore them (or both).

I like creating intrigue in my games, but it tends to be of the pulp variety - generally speaking the villains are clearly villains (with a less obvious comrade to ferret out - remember the theme of betrayal), and it's a matter of catching them in the act rather than crawling through webs of deceit and and obfuscation to resolve the story.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I've found that too complex is half as complex as I think it is. Past the second twist, any story starts to get too complicated to follow. After that, my players just assume everyone is out to get them and nothing can be trusted. Or they'll blindly leap forward, heedless that things may not be as they appear. Either way is bad.

I've found that notes help. The party's one time mentor left them a big plot filled letter, that every month or so I direct the players back to. Eventually they catch on and correlate some of the events that have been happening to info in the letter. Mind you, the letter is only a page long.

I also offer advice, and will let them know that my opinion can be solicited if they need more info or an idea on something. My players trust me enough not to them players in a bad direction.

But it's also kind of something you'll need to train up. First, do stories with a twist until the players can wrap their head around those. Then add a second factor. Then a third. Once understaning of how to deal with the problem is found, dealing with subsequent versions is easier.

By the way, I got through m-dude getting dragged down by one of his summons before I stopped reading. The journal was info dense, but didn't have enough personality to hook me.

Hm. And I just through of something from work: Bulleted lists of key points are nice. I'll have to set one up for my game.

 

[Berandor]

The story can be too complex. My suggestion (as stolen from RDLaws): Keep it simple - the players will make it complex on their own.

Oh, and I write a Story Hour where I insert scenes that happen away from the table, to shed light on the story. I think it works well.