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Can we salvage Toril?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8515424" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Yeah you can, though I think Mulhorand, Chessenta etc. are somehow both lazier (Mulhorand is really very "fantasy Egypt based on ahistorical stereotypes GO!" for example) and somehow less insulting (I think because they're based on more ancient cultures and they're so lazy and by the numbers it's hard to take them seriously). But yeah if anyone was going to get yeeted, it made sense for the various most extreme and un-nuanced rip-off-of-history nations to be it.</p><p></p><p>POCGamer made an interesting critique of this decision, basically saying it amounted to just another form of erasure and disregard, and was almost as bad as doing such a crap job in the first place (or perhaps worse), but he's an old FR history buff (really expert on certain eras), so I think he was a bit influenced by that. I do kind of agree that rebooting Maztica would have been better than shooting it into space or whatever, but I think 4E showed WotC recognised a lot of stuff was problematic long before it actually admitted to recognising stuff was problematic, and tried to usher it out the back door (including the changes to Vistani in that edition, which were akin to the later 5E changes).</p><p></p><p>As 5E was a huge "SORRY GROGS PLEASE COME BACK" edition (not just for grogs, really, also people who were new with 3E), WotC felt the need to reverse all this stuff (including reversing the Vistani straight back into racism lol), where for the longer-term health of the FR, it might have been better to stick with the changes, because now there's an absolute ton of problematic stuff about the FR they have to address sooner or later.</p><p></p><p>Well, or they could quietly move away from the FR, but I honestly only expect that to happen if the movie flops and the other media stuff is disappointing. It's entirely possible to envision a situation where, by the end of this year, the D&D movie has been unsuccessful, none of the FR-set TV series are actually in production still, and where BG3 comes out to mediocre reviews. At that point, there's not a lot tying WotC to the FR, and whilst it may be disruptive to 2024 plans, they'd still have time to change direction and maybe move further away from the FR (assuming the likely FR book isn't out this year, but I'd be surprised if it was).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8515424, member: 18"] Yeah you can, though I think Mulhorand, Chessenta etc. are somehow both lazier (Mulhorand is really very "fantasy Egypt based on ahistorical stereotypes GO!" for example) and somehow less insulting (I think because they're based on more ancient cultures and they're so lazy and by the numbers it's hard to take them seriously). But yeah if anyone was going to get yeeted, it made sense for the various most extreme and un-nuanced rip-off-of-history nations to be it. POCGamer made an interesting critique of this decision, basically saying it amounted to just another form of erasure and disregard, and was almost as bad as doing such a crap job in the first place (or perhaps worse), but he's an old FR history buff (really expert on certain eras), so I think he was a bit influenced by that. I do kind of agree that rebooting Maztica would have been better than shooting it into space or whatever, but I think 4E showed WotC recognised a lot of stuff was problematic long before it actually admitted to recognising stuff was problematic, and tried to usher it out the back door (including the changes to Vistani in that edition, which were akin to the later 5E changes). As 5E was a huge "SORRY GROGS PLEASE COME BACK" edition (not just for grogs, really, also people who were new with 3E), WotC felt the need to reverse all this stuff (including reversing the Vistani straight back into racism lol), where for the longer-term health of the FR, it might have been better to stick with the changes, because now there's an absolute ton of problematic stuff about the FR they have to address sooner or later. Well, or they could quietly move away from the FR, but I honestly only expect that to happen if the movie flops and the other media stuff is disappointing. It's entirely possible to envision a situation where, by the end of this year, the D&D movie has been unsuccessful, none of the FR-set TV series are actually in production still, and where BG3 comes out to mediocre reviews. At that point, there's not a lot tying WotC to the FR, and whilst it may be disruptive to 2024 plans, they'd still have time to change direction and maybe move further away from the FR (assuming the likely FR book isn't out this year, but I'd be surprised if it was). [/QUOTE]
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