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WotC Can we salvage Toril?

Greggy C

Adventurer
Supporter
Or are we forever more stuck with Sword Coast and the rest of the world ignored?

Will WOTC ever redo Matzica, Karatur and any other problematic regions based on real world history?

Thats the key question in my mind. Will they, or will they just ignore it for the next 20 years?

Lets assume they ignore it. Is it possible for Candlekeep historians to work with Ed to redo those regions into something that we can all be proud of? Get some content that everyone who cares about the realms can get behind, promote, and be the true replacement?

Or is it just that nobody cares anymore about FR, and similar to Critical Role, its better everyone builds their own world and there is no longer a common shared world experience.
 

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Lyxen

Great Old One
Or are we forever more stuck with Sword Coast and the rest of the world ignored?

I would be very happy in the FR being only the Sword Coast and releasing all the other areas stolen through the years to be usable in other settings.

Or is it just that nobody cares anymore about FR, and similar to Critical Role, its better everyone builds their own world and there is no longer a common shared world experience.

You can have global shared worlds like Eberron that don't trigger as many problems.
 


Greggy C

Adventurer
Supporter
My Faerun is fine. I have decades of information, adventures, and background from previous editions on my shelf that I've been using regardless of which edition or system I might play. Anything that is missing I can get online. What's the problem?
The problem is you don't share it. The reason I chose FR in 1989 is because it saved me 1000 hours of world building while doing a degree.
 


Uni-the-Unicorn!

Adventurer
Or are we forever more stuck with Sword Coast and the rest of the world ignored?

Will WOTC ever redo Matzica, Karatur and any other problematic regions based on real world history?

Thats the key question in my mind. Will they, or will they just ignore it for the next 20 years?

Lets assume they ignore it. Is it possible for Candlekeep historians to work with Ed to redo those regions into something that we can all be proud of? Get some content that everyone who cares about the realms can get behind, promote, and be the true replacement?

Or is it just that nobody cares anymore about FR, and similar to Critical Role, its better everyone builds their own world and there is no longer a common shared world experience.
Hasn’t Ed already done some of this on the DMsGuild? If it got more traction (made lots of money), I’m sure he would be involved in more projects like this.
 



Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
And this why FR will get ruined in every edition.

WoTC: So, um, we've made Forgotten Realms the default setting. Pretty much every single AP that we've made is set in the Forgotten Realms. We've got a movie coming out set in the Forgotten Realms. There are books by Salvatore coming out- yeah, those are FR too. Plus there's practically an infinite amount of legacy FR content. Oh, have seen the excellent Forgotten Realms Wiki?

FR Fans: WHY DO YOU HATE THE FORGOTTEN REALMS? WHERE IS OUR FR MATERIAL????
 

jgsugden

Legend
It is my hope that they'll rethink everything with 6th edition and... reboot every setting.

Take us back to the time of the Grey Box for the FR when 6E comes. Take us back to the War of the Lance in Krynn. Freedom in Athas. 998YK in Eberron. Common Year 569 in Greyhawk (Temple of Elemental Evil). Keep the core intact, but update the sensibilities in engaging ways, like Marvel has done in the MCU for their dated comic concepts.

Give us books of lore that are intended to not be changed much over the years, and separate books of crunch that can change from edition to edition. You can expand the lore books by adding more regions, etc... over time, including Maztica, Thay, Kara-Tur, etc... Heck, I think they'd be smart to put all of that lore up on the internet for free (it will be there anyways) and just release it in books as 'collector's editions'. They'll make their money off the crunch books - the lore books are just advertising.
 

Greggy C

Adventurer
Supporter
Hasn’t Ed already done some of this on the DMsGuild? If it got more traction (made lots of money), I’m sure he would be involved in more projects like this.
There are some discussions with Ed on the topics, he explained that in his Forgotten Realms there is no Maztica, he has something completely different. Ideally I would like to see that come out and replace what is essentially a copy/paste of Central America history. But no, he has not produced replacements.
 

Greggy C

Adventurer
Supporter
And this why FR will get ruined in every edition.

WoTC: So, um, we've made Forgotten Realms the default setting. Pretty much every single AP that we've made is set in the Forgotten Realms. We've got a movie coming out set in the Forgotten Realms. There are books by Salvatore coming out- yeah, those are FR too. Plus there's practically an infinite amount of legacy FR content. Oh, have seen the excellent Forgotten Realms Wiki?

FR Fans: WHY DO YOU HATE THE FORGOTTEN REALMS? WHERE IS OUR FR MATERIAL????
Its not that, I love the Sword Coast work. Its just I've been mapping modules to their position on my interface world map of Toril and after some research on FMA1,FMA2, FMQ1 I realize that they are ever going to touch Maztica again and I find that a shame.
 

Uni-the-Unicorn!

Adventurer
There are some discussions with Ed on the topics, he explained that in his Forgotten Realms there is no Maztica, he has something completely different. Ideally I would like to see that come out and replace what is essentially a copy/paste of Central America history. But no, he has not produced replacements.
He absolutely has some products on the DMs Guild. Not sure why those don’t count to you or why you mean by replacements
 

Bayushi_seikuro

Adventurer
I think they should go by the design idea of the Old Grey Box - they spelled out specifically what regions would not be developed in future products (yes, they no doubt have since been detailed) For example, Sembia was a nation that wasn't going to be detailed, I believe, and I think Vaasa? Some other specific regions were name-dropped as 'not future developed' so there would be plenty of place to drop a campaign in
 

Greggy C

Adventurer
Supporter
Here is the thing. Someone did redo Matztica in a sensitive way here:

But even with that, first comment is

1642182104727.png


basically you will never succeed unless the region is razed and rebuilt. And for that we need a F.R. task force to work with Ed Greenwood under permission from WOTC.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Its not that, I love the Sword Coast work. Its just I've been mapping modules to their position on my interface world map of Toril and after some research on FMA1,FMA2, FMQ1 I realize that they are ever going to touch Maztica again and I find that a shame.

So, three things and a related point-

1. The above was a joke. Kinda. That said, if you're a fan of pretty much any other setting, listening to FR Fans complain about FR material is kind of like listening to comics fans complain that DC doesn't do enough with Batman. Sure, Batman might be cool, but pretty sure DC does a lot with him.

2. Maztica (and certain other settings) present various serious issues that are not present with other settings; in effect, the risk/reward ration (in terms of risk of screwing it up as opposed to likely sales) makes Maztica a tough one to justify. No matter how well they do it, someone is going to complain, and it was never a super popular part of FR.

3. There's a lot of legacy material out there if you're looking for lore, and some good 3PP for 5e as well. You're covered if you want to be. I know it's not official, but it's good.

Now, as a final point- I happen to agree with most people regarding the Grey Box. To me, that is still the best FRCS. I understand the lore completists- if you're into the books, and the videogames, and the "FR Story" then that's cool. But in terms of an RPG campaign setting, it's often best to be sketched out, and allow home campaigns to fill in the details. IMO.
 

toucanbuzz

Legend
I presume WOTC is following a winning formula as they see it. There's this giant map and pretty everything in 5E takes place in this tiny little square on the left side. I'm guessing that new players don't have a clue about the Realms, so it's not a priority to market the entire Realms to them. Old timers have access to old product, satisfying that need there (except perhaps an actual boxed set with a map you can hang on the wall). And, by making everything generic, they don't risk dividing their market (e.g. a party that only plays Maztica may only buy particular product).

Still, the nostalgic part of me finds it a shame. The boxed sets of Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Taladas, and so on were beauties because they provided a wealth of material for DMs to work with. And, it was kind of exciting to look at a big map and wonder...what's over yonder?


1642181889069.png
 

Greggy C

Adventurer
Supporter
He absolutely has some products on the DMs Guild. Not sure why those don’t count to you or why you mean by replacements
I know he worked on projects like Borderlands, but none of that is what I'm talking about, I'm talking about parts of Toril that are basically a copy/paste of real world history, like Maztica.
 

aco175

Legend
Isn't it all about money? Sword Coast sells and it has the most detail of the other lands. I did not look at the Chult book because it is not Sword Coast. Not that I but most of them, but that one was a non-starter. I do not have time to invest in the other lands to the detail that I need, even if they are flavor-wise what I like. I might like a Dales or Cormyr campaign, but I would need an updated book with more detail. I would buy that over a Kara Tur or Haluuran book.

Is the problem the fans all wanting other worlds. The backlash some have on FR and wanting Dark Sun or Planescape splits the design time on other nations of FR and cuts down on those being released. How many other worlds are coming out or being released on places like DMsGuild?

The internet and sites like DMsGuild are both good and bad. They offer more options for people to share their work on other places in FR, but also offer more choices for other worlds and homebrew. There is also the lack of 'official' being tagged to most of it. I wonder how much sales were affected by Ed Greenwood's book on the Border Kingdoms because if was touted as official.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
Or are we forever more stuck with Sword Coast and the rest of the world ignored?

Will WOTC ever redo Matzica, Karatur and any other problematic regions based on real world history?

Thats the key question in my mind. Will they, or will they just ignore it for the next 20 years?

Lets assume they ignore it. Is it possible for Candlekeep historians to work with Ed to redo those regions into something that we can all be proud of? Get some content that everyone who cares about the realms can get behind, promote, and be the true replacement?

Or is it just that nobody cares anymore about FR, and similar to Critical Role, its better everyone builds their own world and there is no longer a common shared world experience.
They did release a couple of books on Candlekeep and Waterdeep at least. They are namely adventures but I guess they have useful setting information. It's still more 5e books than any other setting so far, it's just in line with the low-volume books release of 5e.
 

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