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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5672659" data-attributes="member: 27160">That wasn't really what I was getting at.&nbsp; Even absent the sort of spells that poached other classes roles, planning and careful selection of spell load was a useful thing to do in previous editions; it was the sole redeeming feature of &quot;Vancian&quot; magic, really.Yep, I would pretty much agree with all of this sentiment.Fair enough - I guess my experience with 4E has just been different to yours.&nbsp; Although I do think that non-combat challenges could do with more depth in the systems (and several &quot;strategic&quot; challenges like scouting and research fall into this area), I find that strategy is still alive and well in 4E.&nbsp; Wizards still get to choose dailies, consumable items, imperfect as they (still) are can be used, and there are always encounters tough enough that these preparations can be a good idea.I have used such encounters for reason 1 and they have worked pretty well, so far.&nbsp; They do take some resources - a few healing surges, maybe a daily - and can give some consequences for failing skill challenge rolls.&nbsp; They have to fit the specific challenge, of course, but skillfully handling them is important, just as skillfully handling full encounters is.&nbsp; They take less time and fewer resources - which is just what I hear some folk pining for...Basically, they are not there to be a real threat - just an obstacle that can, if mishandled, cost resources.&nbsp; As an incentive not to bog down into overcautious play or to get sloppy, I think they have a place (albeit a limited one).Again, my experience simply differs.&nbsp; The differences of Ref or AC may look &quot;insignificant&quot; in the context of the full spread of a d20 roll, but when you normally hit monsters on a 10+, hitting on a 7 comes as a very welcome surprise.&nbsp; Just using published monsters, I have seen a pretty good variation in defences and damage.&nbsp; More would make encounters more &quot;swingy&quot;, and the balance between luck and skill for a 30-level campaign progression seems about right, already.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 5672659, member: 27160"] That wasn't really what I was getting at. Even absent the sort of spells that poached other classes roles, planning and careful selection of spell load was a useful thing to do in previous editions; it was the sole redeeming feature of "Vancian" magic, really. Yep, I would pretty much agree with all of this sentiment. Fair enough - I guess my experience with 4E has just been different to yours. Although I do think that non-combat challenges could do with more depth in the systems (and several "strategic" challenges like scouting and research fall into this area), I find that strategy is still alive and well in 4E. Wizards still get to choose dailies, consumable items, imperfect as they (still) are can be used, and there are always encounters tough enough that these preparations can be a good idea. I have used such encounters for reason 1 and they have worked pretty well, so far. They do take some resources - a few healing surges, maybe a daily - and can give some consequences for failing skill challenge rolls. They have to fit the specific challenge, of course, but skillfully handling them is important, just as skillfully handling full encounters is. They take less time and fewer resources - which is just what I hear some folk pining for... Basically, they are not there to be a real threat - just an obstacle that can, if mishandled, cost resources. As an incentive not to bog down into overcautious play or to get sloppy, I think they have a place (albeit a limited one). Again, my experience simply differs. The differences of Ref or AC may look "insignificant" in the context of the full spread of a d20 roll, but when you normally hit monsters on a 10+, hitting on a 7 comes as a very welcome surprise. Just using published monsters, I have seen a pretty good variation in defences and damage. More would make encounters more "swingy", and the balance between luck and skill for a 30-level campaign progression seems about right, already. [/QUOTE]

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