Can you reincarnate a creature killed by a death effect?

[Pielorinho]

Can you reincarnate a creature killed by a death effect?

AFAIK, you can, but I was wondering if there's an official ruling.

Daniel

 

[kreynolds]

I'm having trouble coming up with a reason for why you couldn't, unless it was specifically stated in a spell or description or something, of course.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Without actually looking at the rules, I'd say no.

The idea being that a "death effect" snuffs out the soul of the victim, preventing his restoration. It's what assassins would use given the chance - keeps their victims from inconveniently coming back.

Of course, the actual rules may say otherwise.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hmm.

4th level spell. Raise Dead at 5th can't... you need to go up to 7th before you find another spell that can.

I don't know that I'd allow it.

But then, I wouldn't allow Reincarnate to bring back a person who died of old age, either.

What happens if you cast Reincarnate on a body that's been animated as a zombie? The target is 'dead creature touched', the soul is quite possibly willing to return... does Edgar the Elf suddenly appear in a dwarven body just in time to watch the party hacking his former body into pieces?

Creepy.

-Hyp.

 

[Pielorinho]

4th level spell. Raise Dead at 5th can't... you need to go up to 7th before you find another spell that can.

I don't know that I'd allow it.

Is there any support in the rules for not allowing it, or is it just a balance issue for you?

Last week in our game, my animal companion was killed by a slay living effect; although I didn't know whether it would work, I cast reincarnate on the companion. My DM ruled that it was successful.

Obviously, I've got no problem with that ruling, but it was something that I was curious about. As near as I can tell in the rules, nothing prevents this from working, and I was wondering if I was missing something (because it does seem like a weird way to balance the classes).

Daniel

 

[Darklone]

What happens if you cast Reincarnate on a body that's been animated as a zombie? The target is 'dead creature touched', the soul is quite possibly willing to return... does Edgar the Elf suddenly appear in a dwarven body just in time to watch the party hacking his former body into pieces?

IIRC, you cannot revive someone whose corpse is currently undead....

 

[Hypersmurf]

IIRC, you cannot revive someone whose corpse is currently undead....

Raise Dead: "Undead creatures cannot be raised by this spell."
Resurrection and True Resurrection : "You can revive someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed."
Reincarnate: ... well huh. No mention whatsoever of how it interacts with undeadification. In the same way that there's no mention of how it interacts with Death Effects.

The conclusion I draw is that either Reincarnate can revive someone either slain by a death effect, or whose body is currently shambling around looking for brains...

... or that we look at Raise Dead, a higher-level revivification spell, to determine what limitations should be set.

-Hyp.

 

[wolff96]

The conclusion I draw is that either Reincarnate can revive someone either slain by a death effect, or whose body is currently shambling around looking for brains...

Actually, I would agree with that part of it.

The thing is that Reincarnate creates a new body from scratch. So as long as undead don't have souls trapped within them in your world (from reincarnate: "the soul must be free"), then there isn't really a problem.

We're talking about a spell that might bring you back in a form where you can no longer use any of your class abilities. I think a few perks to balance out that chance are necessary.

 

[Pielorinho]

The thing is that Reincarnate creates a new body from scratch. So as long as undead don't have souls trapped within them in your world (from reincarnate: "the soul must be free"), then there isn't really a problem.

There's another, albeit ambiguous, limitation: the spell's target is "dead creature touched." Is an undead creature a dead creature?

Furthermore, at what point during the casting time do you touch the dead creature? I'm guessing that it's at the end of the casting time, but is this made explicit anywhere in the rules? If not, does that mean you've gotta tie down the ghast who used to be your buddy and keep a hand on his squirmy wormy flesh for the entire ten-minute casting time? Ewww.

Nevertheless, although it works from a house-rule perspective to use raise dead's limitations for reincarnate, it sounds like there's no justification in the core rules for this idea -- that a straightforward reading of the rules allows for reincarnating someone killed by death effects.

Daniel