frankthedm
First Post
You've made a grand reason why it shouldn't be allowed.
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Can you retrain class features? Would doing so be unbalancing?
- Thread starter Pielorinho
- Start date
It kinda depends on what they want to do.
If it's like, "I thought I'd like swinging a greatsword, but I'm starting to think shield is a better route", that's peachy with me. Or "Orb of imposition looked awesome, but I think I'd rather have the staff".
But stuff like major build choices (such as whether your rogue focuses on CHA or STR) or what pact you chose (which influences what abilities you use and what powers you get), I'm less likely to allow.
However, all this is going to have to be done at low level, and once only. You don't get to switch implements every six levels, and you SURE can't come look at me at fifth or eighth level and ask to change your pact. And it's all retcon. We're pretending you made the other choice to start with, not that you just decided to forget how to be awesome with a two-handed weapon and suddenly learn one-hand style.
For example -- I recently allowed my group's Warlock to switch pacts, swap some ability scores, and so on, because he realized that Infernal pact really doesn't work for his play style, and he'd rather be tricky than tough. And that's fine with me, but I told him he can't change it again. (Partly, I allowed the change because Fey pact fits better with some vague plot ideas I had.) They just levelled up for the first time, so I'm okay with that for now. If he'd asked the same thing two levels from now, it would've been a resounding NO.
I'm flexible, but retcon only goes so far. You get through a few battles and realize that this build isn't what you had hoped, fair enough -- change it. You've had the guy for a couple months and suddenly want to change? No sale. You can retire your character and make a brand new one if we can work it into the plot, but no changes outside of official retraining at that point.
If it's like, "I thought I'd like swinging a greatsword, but I'm starting to think shield is a better route", that's peachy with me. Or "Orb of imposition looked awesome, but I think I'd rather have the staff".
But stuff like major build choices (such as whether your rogue focuses on CHA or STR) or what pact you chose (which influences what abilities you use and what powers you get), I'm less likely to allow.
However, all this is going to have to be done at low level, and once only. You don't get to switch implements every six levels, and you SURE can't come look at me at fifth or eighth level and ask to change your pact. And it's all retcon. We're pretending you made the other choice to start with, not that you just decided to forget how to be awesome with a two-handed weapon and suddenly learn one-hand style.
For example -- I recently allowed my group's Warlock to switch pacts, swap some ability scores, and so on, because he realized that Infernal pact really doesn't work for his play style, and he'd rather be tricky than tough. And that's fine with me, but I told him he can't change it again. (Partly, I allowed the change because Fey pact fits better with some vague plot ideas I had.) They just levelled up for the first time, so I'm okay with that for now. If he'd asked the same thing two levels from now, it would've been a resounding NO.
I'm flexible, but retcon only goes so far. You get through a few battles and realize that this build isn't what you had hoped, fair enough -- change it. You've had the guy for a couple months and suddenly want to change? No sale. You can retire your character and make a brand new one if we can work it into the plot, but no changes outside of official retraining at that point.
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Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
I disagree, actually. If this is a problem, then the solution should be to modify the orb, not to keep the class choice balanced by making it underpowered at one tier and overpowered at another. If players find it fun at a higher level, I have no objection.
Daniel
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Only the initial at-will is linked to the pact - all the other powers can be chosen freely.
Cheers
WhatGravitas
Explorer
Though you can already do that. By taking Second Implement.
The biggest reason is really the high chance of self-gimping, because some class options harmonize much better with a specific subset of powers.
Cheers, LT.
icarusfallz
First Post
I'm really glad that they included retraining in 4th edition. I have always made a habit of allowing "Tweaks" to characters, especially new ones (even for experienced role-players). Sometimes a character just doesn't turn out the way you want, and you want to switch something out. As long as it's easy to do, and not an abuse, I would allow it.
In the Warlock's case, a mini quest to make a new pact would be hella fun, and the being that the old pact was with might be a bit unhappy. Sounds like good role-playing to me. Oh wait, 4e doesn't HAVE role-playing...
In the Warlock's case, a mini quest to make a new pact would be hella fun, and the being that the old pact was with might be a bit unhappy. Sounds like good role-playing to me. Oh wait, 4e doesn't HAVE role-playing...
NorthSaber
First Post
My Eladrin Fighter might eventually come to think that focusing on one-handed weapons (and shields) might be a good idea, but I think that class features and build choices are something that have developed over a long period of time and can't be changed at the drop of a hat.
Our DM does allow me to change the skill I gained through Eladrin Education, though, but only if I retrain one of the Skill Training or Multiclass feats that give me a skill. For instance, I think I originally had Perception as my Eladrin skill and Arcana from multiclassing, but if I switch the multiclassing feat, I could keep Arcana if I liked, and lose Perception. (Retraining Skill Training or the Multiclass feats is lame anyway so I probably won't do it, but it has been discussed.)
Our DM does allow me to change the skill I gained through Eladrin Education, though, but only if I retrain one of the Skill Training or Multiclass feats that give me a skill. For instance, I think I originally had Perception as my Eladrin skill and Arcana from multiclassing, but if I switch the multiclassing feat, I could keep Arcana if I liked, and lose Perception. (Retraining Skill Training or the Multiclass feats is lame anyway so I probably won't do it, but it has been discussed.)
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