D&D 5E Can you see when you're Blinded?

[Astrosicebear]

Next session bring a can of mace. Set it on the table. Make a motion to re-visit the blinding issue with an experiment.

 

[Li Shenron]

It is a bit extreme, but... let's think about this a bit. Those of us who are not blind may be jumping a bit to conclusions.

In the real world, "blind" does not mean "I exist in total, impenetrable blackness". There are variations and gradations. My father went blind via macular degeneration. He couldn't drive, but could walk around just fine without guide, dog, or cane. He couldn't read, or tell any detail of things in the center of his field of view, but he could tell the color of the shirt you were wearing, could go shopping based on the shapes and colors of familiar products, and could even hold down a job as stock help in a grocery store. He couldn't manage a duel, of course, but he could dance with my Mom at my wedding.

So, we may need to consider some nuance. Think carefully about what requires a check. You require a check to make an attack, but you don't require one to walk across a room.

All true, but then why don't we start considering some nuance on the meaning of "dead", "prone", "grappled" and so on for every condition?

I think there's a reason why we have a list of conditions, and that's to provide a baseline. Then if a gaming group really wants to switch to a higher complexity system with different gradations or variations, there is nothing wrong with it. But do you really think this is the purpose of the player in question?

 

[ephemeron]

Please accept my condolences, and allow me to wish you the best of luck finding saner people to game with.

 

[Dausuul]

After rereading the OP, we may all be overreacting a bit. Remember that we are only seeing one side of the argument, and the OP's contention was that the blinded character should have issues with simply walking around; which does not comport with the rules (no movement penalty for being blind).

Now, if the group really was claiming that "blinded creatures can't see" doesn't mean blinded creatures can't see, that's absurd and a disgrace to the whole rules-lawyering profession. But if they were simply arguing that a blinded PC can move at full speed, that's quite different.

 

[Umbran]

All true, but then why don't we start considering some nuance on the meaning of "dead", "prone", "grappled" and so on for every condition?

Well, I note "dead" isn't a condition in the Basic Rules

But, let us look at those others - Prone mentions that the character can only crawl (and crawling is defined). Grappled mentions that the character's speed is reduced to zero.

Blinded does not make any claim on movement.

Did they just *forget* to mention it on Blinded, do you think? When they thought with enough detail to note that a grappled person can't go anywhere, they failed to tell you that a blind person could not go anywhere. You are going to assume the blinded person can't move anyway?

 

[Umbran]

Now, if the group really was claiming that "blinded creatures can't see" doesn't mean blinded creatures can't see

The issue at hand, honestly, is in what the rules-vague statement "can't see" actually means. I think those who don't have much experience with the blind will tend to take that as meaning more than it has to.

 

[Tormyr]

Well, I note "dead" isn't a condition in the Basic Rules

But, let us look at those others - Prone mentions that the character can only crawl (and crawling is defined). Grappled mentions that the character's speed is reduced to zero.

Blinded does not make any claim on movement.

Did they just *forget* to mention it on Blinded, do you think? When they thought with enough detail to note that a grappled person can't go anywhere, they failed to tell you that a blind person could not go anywhere. You are going to assume the blinded person can't move anyway?

I think that if they covered every possible action/move/etc., the conditions table would be quite long. This seems like a situation for rulings not rules. Treating movement when you can't see as difficult terrain or requiring an Acrobatics check for full speed would make sense.

The part that gets me here is that the DM thought this was a good idea, or maybe the DM just did not know the condition description very well. But whether you can see, your ability checks that require sight, and attack rolls are explicitly spelled out. This was just weird.

 

[Umbran]

I think that if they covered every possible action/move/etc., the conditions table would be quite long. This seems like a situation for rulings not rules.Treating movement when you can't see as difficult terrain or requiring an Acrobatics check for full speed would make sense.

I agree that if they covered every possible thing, there'd be an issue. And if none of the conditions mentioned movement, I'd agree beyond that. But they *explicitly* cover movement in other conditions, even when it seems pretty darned obvious (like Grappled). Having done it multiple times before, you'd figure that was one thing they'd spell out every time they thought it was relevant. Thus, it isn't relevant to blinded.

 

[Enkhidu]

Umbran, your Dad's not blind. He's visually impaired.

 

[Dausuul]

The issue at hand, honestly, is in what the rules-vague statement "can't see" actually means. I think those who don't have much experience with the blind will tend to take that as meaning more than it has to.

Keep in mind that we are talking about the D&D term, not the legal/medical term. If you can tell the color of somebody's shirt, you can see--maybe you can't see a lot, but you can see. That may be "blind" as defined by doctors and lawyers, but it's not "blind" as defined in the D&D rules. Furthermore, the typical case for a blinded creature in D&D is not someone who's been living with the condition for years. Rather, it's a sighted creature that is suddenly deprived of vision (by magic, the extinguishing of a light source, etc.).

All that said, we should be careful about assigning broad rules-based penalties when the rules themselves do not include them. I would rule that a blinded creature can move around the battlefield pretty freely as long as it stays within areas it saw before being blinded. If it goes into an unfamiliar area, it risks falling afoul of terrain hazards or walking into walls, and I might require an Acrobatics check to avoid tripping in certain types of terrain (e.g., rough or uneven ground).