Can you slide or push an enemy into a square you cant see ???????

[Istar]

Sorry may have asked before.

Its more about around corners rather than visibilty to line of affect ?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I believe the answer at this time is 'yes'.

 

[underfoot007ct]

RAW, No you cannot.

In a WOTC Podcast, they discuss this topic. . The Podcast example was pushing a target behind a tree, which would block your line of effect. Mike Meals explained that in 'his' home game he would allow this, even thought RAW doesn't allow this

 

[Taed]

For me, it would depend on the flavor text (even though it is not part of the "rules", I do sometimes have the players read the flavor text to help decide if they can do something unexpected with a power). If it was like a Storm Warden's slide, which would be based on wind and thunderclaps, it's a force from the square they are in which is pushing them into the other square, so the "effect" would be emanating from the square that they started in. I don't know of any offhand, but there are probably some that have flavor text that may refer to being dragged by spirits or black holes or whatever, in which case you couldn't (but you could pull someone outside line of effect into a square that has line of effect, as long as there is line of sight to both).

 

[S'mon]

I agree with Taed, the best thing is usually to apply the flavour text for this as a guide to GM interpretation for powers and rituals. Typically I would expect it to be possible to slide a foe out of sight, at least 1 square, but likely to be sub-optimal for the PC if you don't know what's there.

 

[SensoryThought]

I also agree with Taed. Rule on what makes sense for the power. RAW you couldn't then push into a sphere of darkness with no line of sight, which is just silly.

 

[Ryujin]

It generally breaks line of sight and line of effect, so no.

 

[Nichwee]

Forced movement can go to somewhere you can't see but not somewhere you have no Line Of Effect too. (Ref: Rules Compendium, Pg 211-213: Forced Movement).

So being blind or pushing into darkness is no problem, but pushing (or pulling or sliding) around corners or around pillars is no go.

 

[Taed]

Forced movement can go to somewhere you can't see but not somewhere you have no Line Of Effect too. (Ref: Rules Compendium, Pg 211-213: Forced Movement).

So being blind or pushing into darkness is no problem, but pushing (or pulling or sliding) around corners or around pillars is no go.

While those are the rules as written, I think that looking at the flavor text is important. For example, something like a Thunderstone (or other explosion-based powers) is an explosion that pushes from a target square. That could be thrown into an area where you have neither line of effect nor line of sight, but it would still do the push (though the DM would have to do it if you can't see what's there).

 

[Nichwee]

True, but LoE is always drawn from the "Origin Square" of a power (as is any forced movement), so basic "LoE is needed" means the origin square needs LoE not you, necessarily.

So a burst/blast can knock someone around a corner if the origin square is positioned such that it has LoE around the corner, even if you don't - a classic example being an "Area Burst X at Range Y" that is done in a cross junction can push peeps down each corridor coming off it, even though the caster only has LoE to some of those corridors.