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5E Can you Twin Spell Gate???

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
Hey guys. Talking to our DM before our session and a point came up: can you twin spell Gate to allow you to summon two creatures from another plane??

I am looking for concrete RAW or Sage Advice more than personal interpretation, but all comments are welcome!

We are playing in a couple hours, so the quicker the responses the better LOL and thanks!
 

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Dausuul

Legend
Edit: Never mind any of this. I just realized that Twinned Spell's range requirement (the second creature must be in range) makes this not work. The range of gate is only 60 feet.

Twinned Spell: "When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip)."

Gate
: "You conjure a portal linking an unoccupied space you can see within range to a precise location on a different plane of existence. ... When you cast this spell, you can speak the name of a specific creature (a pseudonym, title, or nickname doesn't work). If that creature is on a plane other than the one you are on, the portal opens in the named creature's immediate vicinity and draws the creature through it to the nearest unoccupied space on your side of the portal."

From the Sage Advice compendium: "If the two of you are curious about our design intent, here is the list of things that disqualify a spell for us: • The spell has a range of self. • The spell can target an object. • The spell allows you to choose more than one creature to be affected by it, particularly at the level you’re casting the spell. Some spells increase their number of potential targets when you cast them at a higher level. • The spell can force more than one creature to make a saving throw before the spell’s duration expires. • The spell lets you make a roll of any kind that can affect more than one creature before the spell’s duration expires."

None of this offers a really ironclad answer, but none of the disqualifiers seems to apply to gate, so it would be fair to say you could do this. The question then is, do you get two gates, or do you get one gate which can suck through two creatures? My general interpretation of Twinned Spell has been that it duplicates the effect as necessary--if you cast fire bolt and twin it, you get two blasts of fire, not one blast that bounces off the first target and shoots away to the second.

However, Twinned Spell doesn't actually say that! It just says you can target a second creature. And the wording of gate makes the choice of target separate from the creation of the portal.

I don't have a clear "Here is the Word of RAW in black and white answer," but based on the above, I would say you can target a second creature but you only get one portal. The second creature must be close enough to the first that the gate can pull it in. Otherwise it isn't "in range."
 
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Fanaelialae

Legend
Hey guys. Talking to our DM before our session and a point came up: can you twin spell Gate to allow you to summon two creatures from another plane??

I am looking for concrete RAW or Sage Advice more than personal interpretation, but all comments are welcome!

We are playing in a couple hours, so the quicker the responses the better LOL and thanks!
It's the DM's call, of course, but i would say no. A twinned spell has to target one creature, and while you can speak a creature's name while casting Gate, by default it doesn't target a creature at all (it just opens a portal). Similar to how you technically can't twin an eldritch blast (because it can target multiple creatures) even if you aim all the blasts at a single creature.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Never mind, I just noticed something else. Twinned Spell requires that the second target be in range... and the range of gate is only 60 feet. So, assuming the other creature you want to summon is more than 60 feet away, you can't do this.
 

77IM

Explorer!!!
Supporter
This depends on whether you are targeting a creature or a point in space. The 60-foot range seems to imply that the target is the space, which would mean you can't twin it. OTOH if I was sucked through a gate to another plane against my will, I would certainly feel like a target. Or, if a creature had a special ability that triggered "when targeted by a conjuration spell" I'd probably rule that it triggers when they get sucked into the gate. So in that sense the creature could be the target.
 

Dausuul

Legend
This depends on whether you are targeting a creature or a point in space. The 60-foot range seems to imply that the target is the space, which would mean you can't twin it. OTOH if I was sucked through a gate to another plane against my will, I would certainly feel like a target. Or, if a creature had a special ability that triggered "when targeted by a conjuration spell" I'd probably rule that it triggers when they get sucked into the gate. So in that sense the creature could be the target.
It doesn't matter, though. I agree that the named creature would count as a target by RAW, but that doesn't change the requirement (imposed by Twinned Spell, not by gate) that the second target must be in range of the spell, and the range of the spell is quite clearly stated to be 60 feet.

Conceivably, you could use Twinned gate to snatch a creature off the Ethereal Plane and into the Material (by arguing that an ethereal creature can be within 60 feet despite being on another plane). But in general, the range requirement pretty well kills this idea.
 
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dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
After the earlier feedback and discussing it with our DM, he ruled it won't work. Since the spell is capable of of targeting someone other than one creature (i.e.g the point in space) it ultimately violates the requirements for Twin Spell. Even if that wasn't the issue, he also agreed the two targets (the original spell and the twinned spell) would have to be within 60 feet of each other for the spell to pull them both back through.

There's no hard-and-fast rule, just his call in this case. shrug

Thanks for your input everyone!
 

Seramus

Adventurer
I would allow the 60 foot version, which means it wouldn't work generally, but you could make it work by convincing two creatures to be within 60 of each other prior to the gating.

Like, capture two elementals and keep them together for future summoning. Or trick two devils into meeting each other and then gating them into a trap.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
He probably would have been okay with the 60 ft version. We had two characters trapped in hell, but only one Gate spell, so we could only summon one PC back to the Prime. So, we are still looking for a way to return the other PC... :(
 

Seramus

Adventurer
He probably would have been okay with the 60 ft version. We had two characters trapped in hell, but only one Gate spell, so we could only summon one PC back to the Prime. So, we are still looking for a way to return the other PC... :(
If you were using a spell, the diamond is not consumed, so you can cast it again after a long rest.

If you were using a scroll, they don't benefit from metamagic in the first place.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
If you were using a spell, the diamond is not consumed, so you can cast it again after a long rest.

If you were using a scroll, they don't benefit from metamagic in the first place.
Why not? You can use metamagic when casting spells from a staff, for example, and I've never seen or read anything that implies you can't use metamagic on a scroll. After all, when you read the spell scroll, you are casting the spell.
 


dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
i like your dm, trapping characters in hell is just total cool 😎
LOL those darn Rakshaha! :mad:

We used the Gate scroll to get one back, but I think our party is going to have to venture into Hell to rescue the other one (if he is still alive by then).
 

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