can you Wild Shape into animals with advanced HD?

[Epametheus]

Your druid would've been better served by a brown bear form -- higher Str, while still being just as big as a large constrictor.

And JG has it, basically -- you can't turn into an advanced specimen by the rules, but it'd make a neat house rule.

 

[Deset Gled]

IMC we decided that yes you can turn into an advanced creature with Wildshape, Polymorph or Shapechange since we could not find anything in the rules to say that it was not an option. Some posts in this thread seem to think that you are limited to only the standard HD listed in the MM, if you can tell me where this is printed I would appreciate it.

The trail you must follow to get to this ruling is rather roundabout, but still clear. Here goes:

The Wildshape class ability functions as the spell Polymorph, with some exceptions that are not relevant to this question.

The Polymorph spell functions as the spell Alter Self, with some exceptions that are not relevant to this question.

Alter Self states: "You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race." (Emphasis mine).

Finally, under the Improving Monsters section, it states "Each of the monster entries describes a typical creature of its kind."

And there you have it. You can only Wildshape into the typical animals and plants listed in the MM, not any advanced versions, versions with class levels, or versions with templates.

 

[Scion]

Finally, under the Improving Monsters section, it states "Each of the monster entries describes a typical creature of its kind."

And there you have it. You can only Wildshape into the typical animals and plants listed in the MM, not any advanced versions, versions with class levels, or versions with templates.

While I know what you mean, but there are some animals advancements that dont make any sense for a real world comparison, in the real world those animals just dont get that big.

so the arguement could be made that those are actually a 'completely different species' that happens to look the same, thereby being the norm of its other species but being written in shorthand in order to save space.

Sure it seems weird, and it is, and I agree that what you have said is by the rules as well, so no arguement there but the arguement could definately be made, and as I cant think of any times it would be 'overpowered' I would be inclined to allow it.

Especialy as I would rather someone picked a few animals they really liked and just became slightly better versions of them now and then, rather than adding a completely new list of animals every now and then, but that is merely a personal preference and has little bearing here

 

[rich]

Actually, that would make an interesting variant wild shape ability... you can only turn into one shape, but you can turn into successively larger forms.

Black bear, black bear with advancement, brown bear, brown bear with advancement, dire bear, dire bear with advancement... legendary bear?

Maybe add the ability to take on a template, except that once you pick it, you are stuck with it.

see the PrC "Animal Lord" in Master's of the Wild...