NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheAuldGrump" data-source="post: 5658247" data-attributes="member: 6957">Probably a fair assessment.Also a fair assessment. Add in some folks feeling that the approach to the new game was a kind of betrayal of trust.... *Shrug* True or not, it didn't help. On this I wish both games all the luck in the world! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> New recruits are growth, and hope for the future. It is why I was disappointed that the 4e Essentials starter box did not do all that well locally. Hopefully the Pathfinder Beginner Box will fare better, even if some later switch to 4e.   From my personal view - the OGL is what brought me back into the game. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It reminded me of the very beginnings of RPGs, and the cottage industries that popped up. The result was the game growing in new directions and along paths that the creators did not foresee. I agree there - add the fact that WotC charged full price for PDFs of 3.X, and, after being surprised by the piracy of overpriced PDFs killed PDFs entirely. Paizo charges a fifth of the price for the PDF of their core, and likely either have less piracy or are willing to take that loss. I have been a witness to these arguments in person as well as online - it is even less fun hearing two gamers yelling at each other in person than it is over the interweb.Maybe, a little. But you are fun to argue with, rarely repeat inside of a single thread, and are sometimes willing to back down from insupportable positions. There are much, much worse. (My definition pretty much comes down to a vocal defense of your chosen game. But definitions vary. Some go beyond 4eAvenger and into Br4t.)I, on the other hand fail to understand why some feel that Grognard is an insult.... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> (I started gaming with Avalon Hill boardgames and GDW System 7 Napoleonics.) There are changes that I embrace (fire good!) and others that I resist or reject completely. I embraced the changes in Pathfinder's Advanced Player's Guide, but rejected the changes of 4e, as an example. As I said, I would be willing to believe that 4e has more players, but that they are either DDi subscribers, sharing a subscription, or are happy with what they have and don't feel the need to buy more. Play the game(s) that you like. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I like Pathfinder, and, since the APG came out, I actually like it more than I did 3.5.I think that WoTC needs to restructure a bit, rethink their approach, and really, really needs to work on making worthwhile adventures. (A sore point - it was a problem in 3.5, and has not gone away.) It is worth noting, perhaps, that some of those influences are also waning. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> (And given the choice between Hero Quest and Rune Quest 2 or 3, I will take either version of Rune Quest, thank you.)Some of it may just come down to not being able to articulate what they don't like. As an example, I really do not like the 'tactical skirmish game' aspect of combat. I do not say that that is the only reason that I do not like 4e, but it is one of the ways that is easiest to describe.I do not like building the game around the encounter as a unit of time. (Hopefully that came out in an understandable fashion....) I like the day.I really do not like healing surges, or the way it seems that every class covers all areas to some degree, what some call the 'homogeneity' of classes. They may do things in different ways, and to different levels of effectiveness, but....Here, I again agree with you - I think that reputation was 'earned' by the pre-release books rather than the actual game books. Those books shaped people's opinions of the forthcoming game, and not entirely in a good way.Those preview books had me hating the game before it even appeared. I was willing to give it a try, but as I was already antipathetic towards the game, it was likely a waste of time. My mind was already turned against it by the lead up to the game. And I would say that a lot of folks did not bother looking at the game itself in the wake.Certainly the 4e books themselves address role playing. I disagree with some, and dislike the handling of skill challenges, but the focus is there. Frustrating from both sides, actually. There are some 4e avengers who can raise my hackles because they keep repeating the same arguments, refuse to look at contradicting evidence, or are just plain crazy! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Rational debate is much more entertaining, and less likely to get me banned. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I know that I am much more likely to notice comments by Br4ts than similarly antagonistic posts by Grognards (need a better insulting term for overly combative 3.X/PF fans... I consider Grognard a compliment). Agreed. I generally try to strike that balance, but something brushes my fur the wrong way, my hackles rise, and my inner war troll lumbers down from the mountain. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> My 'Ignore' list has increased in size largely to avoid my need to shoulder my warclub. I don't think that I used it at all before 4e... (and it is not just f4natics on my Ignore list).The Auld Grump, N3rds? No.... Ah! J3rks!*EDIT* Grogn3rds!</blockquote>

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