D&D 5E Cantrip nerf (house rule brainstorm)

[Atomoctba]

That's already a thing, so nothing really changes. But prolonged encounters, and prolonged periods between resting opportunities will make those casters think about resource management.



I'm okay with the scaling, it's the spamming that I have issue with. Running out of uses necessitates variety, as well as non-magic backup options.

Of course, mileage can vary among different parties, but in my table, it does not lead to more variety. Just to "pull dagger and attack or pull crossbow and attack" for most rounds, without any variation. In this case, I am very ok with spamming a cantrip for most rounds. If it is to repeat and repeat the same action from round to round, I prefer something more in line of the expected from a spellcaster.

Worst yet, no pull anything and attack... Just retreat to a safe distance and wait the others finish the enemies without do more anything for the combat.

 

[Teemu]

If I wanted to restrict the spammable nature of cantrips, I might limit the use to proficiency bonus + spellcasting ability score modifier times per long rest, except warlocks for who it’s per short rest. I suppose multiclass casters would choose one ability score to determine the uses.

If you think about adventuring days, it may not actually be as debilitating as it appears at first glance. A cleric could have about 7 cantrip casts in a day, but the party isn’t dealing with infinite encounters per day. You can basically get an average number of rounds a typical day has, which could easily be 8 to 10, and many of those rounds use spell slots. This obviously ignores non-combat cantrip uses. Maybe add the ritual tag to some of the utility cantrips?

 

[Stormonu]

Riffing off the above, you could make the Fatigue threshold equal to Con modifier + Proficiency Bonus (minimum Proficiency Bonus).

Bonus actions are not strenuous. Taking an Action (Attack, Dash, Dodge, Cast A Spell) is strenuous. If an action is strenuous, you accumulate 1 Fatigue point. For each multiple you reach of your Fatigue threshold, you gain one level of exhaustion. Fatigue is reset to one multiple lower than the highest Fatigue threshold your have reached after a short rest.

(For example, a 1st level Fighter with 16 Con would have a Fatigue Threshhold of 5. At 5 Fatigue, the fighter would accumulate one level of exhaustion, two levels at 10 Fatigue and so on. If the Fighter had 12 Fatigue and took a short rest, they would reduce their Fatigue to 5.)

Add a new action:

Basic Attack (bonus action): You make a single weapon attack. You cannot enhance this attack with abilities such as Flurry of Blows, Extra Attack, Sneak Attack, Smite or similar class, racial abilities or spells. You do not add your ability modifier to damage. You cannot take this action and use the Attack action in the same turn.

Also become ripe for a Feat that grants a bonus to your Fatigue threshhold - say adding 2 or perhaps doubling your Proficiency bonus for the calculation.

 

[Burnside]

If I wanted to restrict the spammable nature of cantrips, I might limit the use to proficiency bonus + spellcasting ability score modifier times per long rest, except warlocks for who it’s per short rest. I suppose multiclass casters would choose one ability score to determine the uses.

If you think about adventuring days, it may not actually be as debilitating as it appears at first glance. A cleric could have about 7 cantrip casts in a day, but the party isn’t dealing with infinite encounters per day. You can basically get an average number of rounds a typical day has, which could easily be 8 to 10, and many of those rounds use spell slots. This obviously ignores non-combat cantrip uses. Maybe add the ritual tag to some of the utility cantrips?

Might come down to playstyle. When I play a caster, I tend to use stuff like prestidigitation, thaumaturgy, mage hand, and guidance out of combat as if I'm being paid every time I cast them.

 

[DemoMonkey]

If you must have a limit, just pick a high but still measurable number of cantrip "slots" per short rest.

10 x Proficiency Bonus/short rest would work. It satisfies the conceptual space of "not being unlimited", without impacting actual play for anyone but low level Bladedancers and Warlocks.

 

[commandercrud]

I did this and it's working great. Your spellcasting modifier = # cantrips per day. You can spend 30 days downtime to double this number, training at cost = 1gp/class level/day plus lifestyle expenses. Short rest = 8 hours sleep. Long rest = 5 downtime days.

 

[Don Durito]

From 13th Age

Wizards can cast a number of cantrips equal to their Intelligence modifier each battle. Each cantrip takes a standard action to cast as a ranged spell. Outside of battle, a wizard can cast about three to six cantrips every five minutes. The Cantrip Mastery talent speeds up cantrip casting.

Proficiency times a short rest for each cantrip is just too much bookkeeping.

 

[nevin]

Id suggest doing away with damage cantrips and adjust the spell table.
Or make a 1st level spell called cantrip that lets you use any of the cantrip powers for duration of spell.

 

[Musing Mage]

it could be per cantrip (2 uses of Firebolt, 2 uses of Chill Touch, 2 uses of Prestidigition, etc.)

That was pretty much what I was thinking, but in reading responses I think I have the solution that fits what I'm looking for...

2) Because I like the idea of physical spell focuses (perhaps the Harry Potter fan in me?) I think cantrips should be at-will as long as you have your focus. If you don't, they cost a 1st level spell slot. "Oh look, NOW the wizard cares that we were all strip searched before being tossed in the cell."

I like this - this seems to me to be the gimmick I want - Unlimited so long as you have your Casting Focus, if you lose your casting focus you get Your level plus your proficiency modifier in total cantrip castings per long rest. As you say - very Harry Potter, but it works well (in theory at least).

I'll note it in my doc of house rules and ponder it further.

 

[jgsugden]

This assumes non-combat cantrips are meaningless, which they're not, and also that you're using all your spell slots in combat, which you're not. Also assumes you're not a warlock, with 2 spell slots, pretty much reliant on the eldritch blast cantrip in combat for almost all its builds.

What non-combat cantrips are you seeing spammed? Light? Mold Earth? Mage Hand? Prestidigitation/Thaumatury? It is a rare occurence that using these cantrips is anything more than a convenience.

This is much ado bout nothing.