Careers vs Levels; Abstract vs Narratively Specific: The Feel of D&D

A separate thread touches upon the math describing player power increases due to level increases, and similar math describing how to increase monster powers as the challenge rating of the monster is increased.

Such strict mathematical increases are present, informally, in 1E, for example, but increasing monster Natural Armor bonuses, largely without explanation, or by adding +'s to magic items, or by assuming standard stat boosting items. The sequence of G1-G3, D1-D3 illustrates the power increases very directly. 3/3.5E makes the math more formal, with strict linear increases in many cases. 4E pushed the linearization to more areas, making all of attack, defense, and skills subject to linear increases with level.

Not covered by the thread, but increasingly a part of D&D are narratively specific abilities. For example, Power Attack, or Dodge from 3/3.5E, and numerous specific abilities from 4E.

The two trends: Strict linear power growth; many narratively specific powers, have (in my opinion) pushed the game strongly to having a different feel than 1E. That is not comment on a qualitative difference, here meaning "better or worse", just to say, different.

The trends stand out more clearly when considering other gaming systems, in particular, Warhammer Fantasy, which uses careers and has no linear ability growth. Ability/power increases are entirely by purchases of specific increases as a part of a career package. Purchases include both ability type (e.g., Strength) gains, as well as specific abilities (e.g., Strike Mighty Blow, or Parry, or Blather).

In reflection on these trends, I find myself asking several questions: To what degree are the several features a part of the essential feel of D&D? To what degree are the features necessary to compete with several available gaming systems? And: How many of the features can be provided through a modular game while retaining a clear core identity to the game? How many of the features can be used while retaining coherency, with a direct impact to playability?

TomB
 

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On linear power growth in Warhammer you go from sucking completely to ruling. In 4E you go from doing okay to doing okay. I'd like to see a system where you go from suck to rule, suck to rule, and suck to rule again over three tiers of play. I'd like to see heroes humbled by the increased demands of paragon play, and then humbled again as epic begins.
 

On linear power growth in Warhammer you go from sucking completely to ruling. In 4E you go from doing okay to doing okay. I'd like to see a system where you go from suck to rule, suck to rule, and suck to rule again over three tiers of play. I'd like to see heroes humbled by the increased demands of paragon play, and then humbled again as epic begins.

I don't know. If you're talking about level appropriate challenges, shouldn't you ALWAYS be doing OK? Isn't anything else a reflection of the opposition, as opposed to your ability?

If you want that kind of trajectory in 4th edition, throw 5th level threats at players for 10 levels, then repeat with 15th level for 10.

If you want players to appreciate their growth, have them trounce some low level threats now and then and have them face some overwhelming odds...
 

On linear power growth in Warhammer you go from sucking completely to ruling. In 4E you go from doing okay to doing okay. I'd like to see a system where you go from suck to rule, suck to rule, and suck to rule again over three tiers of play. I'd like to see heroes humbled by the increased demands of paragon play, and then humbled again as epic begins.

I see where you are coming from. This is the old "just give em tougher orcs" problem, or as I like to call it "oblivion syndrome". If you just keep throwing "equivelent" enemies/challenges at the players, there is no real sense of growth or advancement.

This idea of putting them back to newb status on tier aquisition has merit. Its like starting a new campaign with the same party. You let players re-experience that climb from newb to god, which to me is one of the key requirements of an enjoyable RPG.

Hadn't thought about this before but thank you for bringing the idea to my attention.

(You see. Isnt it nice to get a post in a forum thats an affirmation of your position rather than an argument against.)
 

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