D&D 5E Advanced D&D or "what to minimally fix in 5E?"

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
Advantage/Disadvantage is a TERRIBLE mechanic. It distills EVERYThing to the same borked mechanic. It gives no reason for the party to work together to find multiple synergies.
I’d argue that Ad/Dis is a fine mechanic, the issue lies in the fact the designers decided it would basically be the ONLY mechanic for adjudicating the nuances of any situation.
 

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I’d argue that Ad/Dis is a fine mechanic, the issue lies in the fact the designers decided it would basically be the ONLY mechanic for adjudicating the nuances of any situation.
yeah - for example, pf2e technically has instances of ad/dis (in fortune/misfortune effects), but they're used very sparingly, and bonuses/penalties are typically handled by a small number of types of modifiers.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I’d argue that Ad/Dis is a fine mechanic, the issue lies in the fact the designers decided it would basically be the ONLY mechanic for adjudicating the nuances of any situation.
Yeah, the designers went too far.

Ad/Disad was supposed to minimize number of little bonuses. Instea it replaced the idea of bonuses.

Really if 5e standardize the idea that content or a DM could hand of
  1. Advantage or Disadvantage
  2. A reroll
  3. Double or halved proficiency
To have 3 ideas spread around instead on only one over and over and over... it might not be as bad.
 




Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
None of us know where the line is that turns something from "modded and fixed 5E" into "a new game".
I do. Because there is no line. For some any change to the rules makes it another game. For others as long as there is some part of the game left, the vast majority of it can be modified and it will still be D&D.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
I do. Because there is no line. For some any change to the rules makes it another game. For others as long as there is some part of the game left, the vast majority of it can be modified and it will still be D&D.
Look, the obvious truth is: D&D is whatever it's publisher publishes.

If you want to play D&D like I do, as opposed to another game, part of the attraction is playing not a D&D game but the D&D game.

A game with good support, good rulescrafting, good balance. The game "everyone" focuses on and discussed.

Every other game in the D&D sphere of influence gains only maybe 10% as much scrutiny, material and support as D&D. (If that; it's more like less than 1% for the vast majority of D&D hopefuls.)

The exact line between "still D&D but with house rules" and "a different game" is, as you say, fuzzy. Or non-existent.

What I do know is, that from my POV most if not all supposedly "D&D but better" games fail to remain D&D. They change too many things too much.

That's why I started this thread.

I want a game that does not want to replace the PHB with its own "player's manual". It should change or replace a very defined set of things (see for instance the first post if this thread for such a list) and then not change or republish anything else.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Look, the obvious truth is: D&D is whatever it's publisher publishes.
This is wrong. They can publish what they name D&D, but they have no ability whatsoever to determine what D&D is to me. There have been 5 different editions, as well as BECMI that have all been different. And those are only the 5 so far. There were be more versions of D&D, plus all the different D&Ds that we the players have made.

Every edition of D&D, EVERY SINGLE ONE, has been designed in such a way that it remains D&D despite all the changes DMs make to it. One of the design goals of D&D is for players to make the game their own version of D&D through changes, rulings, third party products, etc. D&D is designed to be changed and remain D&D.
If you want to play D&D like I do, as opposed to another game, part of the attraction is playing not a D&D game but the D&D game.
Just like they have no ability whatsoever to determine what D&D is to me, neither do you. You can't be right if you tell me that my altered version, and I house rule the crap out of every edition that I play, is another game. You can only tell me that it doesn't seem like D&D to YOU.
The exact line between "still D&D but with house rules" and "a different game" is, as you say, fuzzy. Or non-existent.
Non-existent. We each have our own individual lines and the company doesn't draw one. We can say what feels like D&D to us, but not what is or is not D&D for someone else.
What I do know is, that from my POV most if not all supposedly "D&D but better" games fail to remain D&D. They change too many things too much.
And that's fair. You get to determine what feels like D&D to you
I want a game that does not want to replace the PHB with its own "player's manual". It should change or replace a very defined set of things (see for instance the first post if this thread for such a list) and then not change or republish anything else.
Unfortunately, every edition or half edition like 5.5e does just that. There are significant changes in the upcoming PHB, DMG and MM. They also continually change rules as time goes on. See Tasha's, Xanathar's and other books that make modifications to the rules.

What you are asking for isn't something that D&D has ever been. TSR published changes to rules, additions to systems, etc. and so does WotC. WotC has also embraced 3rd party additions/changes to the game.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Unless I've misunderstood them... at the end of the day what it seems like @CapnZapp wants is merely a Xanathar's or Tasha's style rulebook that only specifically edits / changes / adds a small set of things. So you basically still have to use the Player's Handbook for all the main rules of the game, with just the changes provided by the smaller expansion book. Which they correctly state is different than a lot of the other 5E expansions out there (Level Up, Tales of the Valiant, other 5E heartbreakers etc.) that re-do the entirety of the WotC 5E PHB and create their own complete Player's Handbook out of it for their own game.

The reason why a number of these publishers do that I think is pretty self-explanatory-- it allows a player to not have to reference two books at once, going back and forth between them and trying to ignore the bits in the WotC 5E PHB that have been changed or removed. A fully re-written tome of each chapter in the PHB is just easier overall to read and you don't have to remember which parts of the WotC book don't apply to the new version because those parts have been removed. But in Capn's best case scenario, it seems like the changes they envision are not so intricate that it would be necessary for ease-of-use to reprint the PHB rules, but rather like Xanathar's and Tasha's, they just get inserted in.

Whether or not the rules that CapnZapp is desiring are worth it to someone to write and then publish in a small expansion book though is the real question. And at least at this point the answer seems to be No.
 

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