Cartography Skill?

[Wonger]

A player of mine was interested in taking a cartography skill, and that brought a bunch of questions to mind. Should it be Profession as it is in the Royal Explorer Prc? Or craft, as crafting a map is a in fact a fine artisan's craft? How would it be handled in game terms if he wants to map an area? Should the DM supply maps for areas he says "I'm mapping"? How about when he wants to create a kingdom or world map? What if the player handles mapping a dungeon himself - does his character's check negate or introduce errors that the player makes or doesn't make? The player has said he mainly wants to use it to relate directions to his party and recognize areas he's been in before, etc. - but I know at some point he will want to make a map as well.

So my questions boil down to this: is there a d20 source somewhere that handles a cartography skill nicely? Or has anyone run into these problems and come up with good solutions on their own? Anyone have suggestions for appropriate DC's?

 

[Sejs]

I could see why it would be listed as a Profession, but my gut tells me that it should be a Craft skill. This is in part due to two factors: 1) it seems more focused on producing a durable object rather than providing some kind of service, and 2) the idea of a 'masterwork map' just makes sense to me.

I don't know about any product listing official rules for cartography, but off the top of my head:

- 5 ranks in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) should grant a +2 synergy bonus to Craft (Cartography) and vice versa due to the knowledge of drafting that the two would share. Other possible avenues for synergy bonuses would be Search, or Knowledge (Geography).

- A masterwork map could provide a +2 circumstance bonus to Survival checks, or an appropriate Profession (such as Navigator or Sailor?) checks for things where it might apply. Checking vs getting lost, trailblazing, finding good spots for shelter, etc.

As for the idea of the skill check being able to relate or corrupt information the player has recieved, I'd say no, avoid that issue. Whether or not he's found something is a function of Search and the like. Cartography is just his ability to write down what he knows. If he knows something incorrectly, then he'll map it out incorrectly.

 

[was]

I'd put it under knowledge: geography.

 

[Vlos]

Well in most fantasy settings, usually there was a "profession" Surveyor, who was good at crafting maps who had knowledge Geography.

I sort of see it similar to the following, you have Craft weapons, but you also have Profession Weaponsmith with knowledge metals, etc.

A Weaponsmith can craft weapons.

A Surveyor can craft maps.

I would probably give synergy bonuses for ranks in related skills.

 

[BryonD]

I'd put it under knowledge: geography.

I'd also do this.

If they wanted the character to be really great at it for some reason then I'd come up with a Map Maker feat that gave some extra abilities keyed off of Know: Geo (using the Track:Survival and Surgery:Heal model)

But just using straight Know:Geo should be fine.

 

[Deset Gled]

I'd put it under knowledge: geography.

I disagree. I think there is a very large difference between knowing all the paths around a mountain, and being able to draw those trails in an accurate, mathematical method so that they can be understood by others. I'd go with Craft, but I would allow a synergy bonus from geography.

 

[dcollins]

Me, I do prefer Profession (cartographer). It's sort of halfway between Craft & Knowledge. It's more than just the physical object -- it's about communication with other people.

If "bookkeeper" and "scribe" are Professions, then so too should "cartographer".

 

[darthkilmor]

Profession doesnt seem to be a real good fit for this. While it might be good for synergy bonuses, it seems like a relevant skill for Making a Map would be craft: mapmaking with synergy bonuses for prof: cartographer, survival (Really its like surveying), and probably knowledge: nature for aboveground and knowledge dungeoneering for below-ground.

nature and not geograghy because it already does:

If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (nature), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made in aboveground natural environments (aquatic, desert, forest, hill, marsh, mountains, or plains

 

[baudbard]

Ok... Wonger is my DM... Here is copy of an idea for a "House Skill". I've tried to give it serious consideration, and in fact this goes much farther than I ever intend to with my character. If you see any immediate fixes or imbalances (but not spelling or grammatical errors ) please post any you see fit.




My only intention is to do thus... We've been there, and here is a map of that area. I am NOT looking to market these maps, but being able to accurately describe areas I've seen to someone who could create a map would be nice, but not necassary.

Let me clearly define what I DO want. I want to be able to tell where we have been and where we have not in a adventure enviroment. If I have supplies available, and I make notes between encounters, I would expect to be able to make rough maps of the are we are exploring. Something one step above a Circle and Line map. Perhaps with a guesstimate to room size, but no notation on corridor length, etc. These maps are for roleplaying and in party use only. My intention is to make Web a kind of scouting character, and the Elocater prestige class aludes to this in their description. A scout should be able to accurately describe what he sees. So as for mapping out a single room, I'd expect to be able to make a map of what is visible after a full round action spent viewing said room.

I would like to suggest some DC's for a craft/profession check, or perhaps a whole new skill Mapping (int, trained only)(available to anyone with craft OR profession as a class skill)

DC 5 mapping a single room's essential features, not furniture or embelisments (chandeliers for example) but floors, walls ceilings, windows, doors, alcoves.

DC 10 mapping a crude version of a small dungeon, including only room size, and how they are connected, but not corridor length.

DC 15 mapping a crude outside area of some size (help me define, a county, a barony, the vile swamp of Tug the Fertile) with obvious natural features such as rivers, mountains and forests. scale is not accurate, but direction is.

DC 20 mapping a full outside area with natural features and politcal boundaries. Scale is not accurate, but direction is.

DC 30 Mapping a continent's natural features. Scale is not acurate but direction is.

DC 40 Mapping a continent's natural features and political boundaries.Scale is not accurate but direction is.

Suggested notes:

Increasing the DC affects the map in the following ways. A DC 5 room map increased to a DC 10 room map is a very detailed map of the room. A DC 30 map of a continents natural features increased to DC 40 is accurate in scale as well as direction. Basically increasing the DC increases the detail of the map by one step but not the total information. For example, an increased continental map does not automatically get political boundaries. Increasing the DC also increases the time to create as seen below. Any detailed DC map can be increased by +10 to make a map a work of art. This also increases the creation time.

Suggested Synergies/Bonuses (Some of these are competency because they make sense, and I believe they should stack.)

Wilderness Lore: 5 ranks gives a +2 competency bonus when depicting outside area's of DC 15 or smaller.

Knowledge (Geography): 5 ranks gives a +2 synergy bonus to mapping outside areas.

Knowledge (Architecure & Engineering: 5 ranks gives a +2 competency bonus when depicting underground man made areas

Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) OR Diplomacy: 5 ranks gives a + 2 competency bonus when depicting a map with political boundaries.

Suggested Time:

Rough Map: A rough map takes 1d4 minutes to create per 5/DC, thus a DC 40 map would take 8d4 minutes to draw. a map drawn in this rough fasion cannot have it's DC increased to include additional detail.

Detailed Map: A detailed map, one with a increased DC, takes 1d4 hours per 5/DC, Thus a DC 40 map would take 8d4 hours to draw.

These times assume that the cartographer has proper tools and writing space available. Improvesed maps (using rocks and sticks for a temporary map, for example) increase the times from 1d4 per 5/DC to 1d6 per 5/DC.

Drawing a map while threatened provokes attaks of opportunity. (though the pen is mightier than the sword)

You can take 10 or 20 on a check, increasing the time to create by 2d4 or 4d4 respectively.

Maps can be created as masterwork causing them to have a 150 gp base cost, representing special inks and pens used in creation, plus the cost of any unusual materials. (thus allowing for magic maps )

 

[BryonD]

I disagree. I think there is a very large difference between knowing all the paths around a mountain, and being able to draw those trails in an accurate, mathematical method so that they can be understood by others. I'd go with Craft, but I would allow a synergy bonus from geography.

Hmm Not really right or wrong answers here.

But within the wide and abstract system that the D&D skills are built on, I'd certainly stay with knowledge. You can easily hand wave the "craft" part if you know where the paths are. All the math in the world won't help even a tiny bit though if you don't know where the path is or goes.