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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9214622" data-attributes="member: 7030563">I don't particularly like the concept of niche protection, especially in relation to classes.&nbsp; While it should be easier to build a certain way because of class, I don't think classes should have niches that other classes can't achieve.&nbsp; I think subclasses are a better place for niche protection, or more accurately a better place to put mechanics beyond what other players can do in the constraints of bounded accuracy.For example a Fey Wanderer Ranger with max Wisdom and high charisma is mechanically the best face you can build.&nbsp; If you build a character for that purpose no other PC can match it, including Bards and Charisma Rogues.&nbsp; But Ranger as a class is not even average when ic comes to being a face.&nbsp; Same with Rune Knight.&nbsp; That can be one of the best skill builds in the game, outrunning just about everything, again including Bards and all Rogues except a Scout. But Fighters are nothing special when it comes to skills.That is the kind of &quot;niche protection&quot; I prefer, and part of that is ensuring class mechanics do not put you so far behind another class that it can't be made up.In that respect I don't think classes should put other classes out of reach though.&nbsp; I like the fact that a Fighter or Barbarian on class mechanics alone is not way better in melee than a Cleric or Wizard can be if devoted to that.&nbsp; In terms of a Niche, if we want the ultimate melee build it should be largely on subclass, not on class mechanics.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9214622, member: 7030563"] I don't particularly like the concept of niche protection, especially in relation to classes. While it should be easier to build a certain way because of class, I don't think classes should have niches that other classes can't achieve. I think subclasses are a better place for niche protection, or more accurately a better place to put mechanics beyond what other players can do in the constraints of bounded accuracy. For example a Fey Wanderer Ranger with max Wisdom and high charisma is mechanically the best face you can build. If you build a character for that purpose no other PC can match it, including Bards and Charisma Rogues. But Ranger as a class is not even average when ic comes to being a face. Same with Rune Knight. That can be one of the best skill builds in the game, outrunning just about everything, again including Bards and all Rogues except a Scout. But Fighters are nothing special when it comes to skills. That is the kind of "niche protection" I prefer, and part of that is ensuring class mechanics do not put you so far behind another class that it can't be made up. In that respect I don't think classes should put other classes out of reach though. I like the fact that a Fighter or Barbarian on class mechanics alone is not way better in melee than a Cleric or Wizard can be if devoted to that. In terms of a Niche, if we want the ultimate melee build it should be largely on subclass, not on class mechanics. [/QUOTE]

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