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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9220913" data-attributes="member: 7030563">The &quot;Charmed&quot; condition is different than the &quot;Incapacitated&quot; condition and generally far weaker.&nbsp; The Charm Person spell in particular is very weak in combat for numerous reasons.&nbsp; First enemies get advantage on the save if you are already in combat, it only effects humanoids and many of them get advantage on the save even if you are not yet in combat.&nbsp; Finally, it only prevents the charmed enemy from attacking or targeting the charmer specifically, they can still target other party members at will.&nbsp; Finally the condition prevents &quot;targeting&quot; or &quot;attacking&quot; the charmer, but not harming the charmer so RAW an enemy can still use an AOE that affects the Charmer because the Charmer is not the target of the AOE.Charm Person has its out of combat uses, but as a combat spell it is one of the worst 1st level spells, down at the bottom of the list with Witchbolt.&nbsp; A caster is usually better off with a Cantrip or Crossbow than with Charm Person.Yes, if they speak your language it can be powerful.&nbsp; But they still have bonus actions and reactions and possibly an action depending on the specific command.&nbsp; Incapacitated eliminates all actions.I'm not saying Command is not powerful, but it is situational and does not cause incapacitated.Yes and unlike Charm Person, Cause Fear is very powerful in combat for a 1st level spell.&nbsp; The Frightened condition is not generally better than incapacitated, but it is still very powerful in its own right and can be situationally better as a condition.Now you are expanding this though and ALL Fighters, regardless of subclass, have access to causing the frightened condition at 1st level.And as I noted on another post, a net causes restrained and can be used at will, can be used against flying creatures, always requires at least one off the enemies attacks to break free or at least an action if the enemy does not do slashing damage and it does not require concentration.All characters can throw a net at level 1 and with the right build choices a 1st level fighter can also throw 2 nets in a single turn.Charm Person is not a &quot;shutdown spell&quot;, so it is 4 spells and only 4 spells if the enemies you face speaks your language and has an intelligence higher than 4, otherwise it is 2 spells, one which is only available to Druids at 1st level and the other that is only available to Wizards and Warlocks.And since now we are now looking beyond the &quot;incapacitated&quot; condition to &quot;shutdown conditions&quot;, many martials have access to these or comparable effects as well, as I pointed out above.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9220913, member: 7030563"] The "Charmed" condition is different than the "Incapacitated" condition and generally far weaker. The Charm Person spell in particular is very weak in combat for numerous reasons. First enemies get advantage on the save if you are already in combat, it only effects humanoids and many of them get advantage on the save even if you are not yet in combat. Finally, it only prevents the charmed enemy from attacking or targeting the charmer specifically, they can still target other party members at will. Finally the condition prevents "targeting" or "attacking" the charmer, but not harming the charmer so RAW an enemy can still use an AOE that affects the Charmer because the Charmer is not the target of the AOE. Charm Person has its out of combat uses, but as a combat spell it is one of the worst 1st level spells, down at the bottom of the list with Witchbolt. A caster is usually better off with a Cantrip or Crossbow than with Charm Person. Yes, if they speak your language it can be powerful. But they still have bonus actions and reactions and possibly an action depending on the specific command. Incapacitated eliminates all actions. I'm not saying Command is not powerful, but it is situational and does not cause incapacitated. Yes and unlike Charm Person, Cause Fear is very powerful in combat for a 1st level spell. The Frightened condition is not generally better than incapacitated, but it is still very powerful in its own right and can be situationally better as a condition. Now you are expanding this though and ALL Fighters, regardless of subclass, have access to causing the frightened condition at 1st level. And as I noted on another post, a net causes restrained and can be used at will, can be used against flying creatures, always requires at least one off the enemies attacks to break free or at least an action if the enemy does not do slashing damage and it does not require concentration. All characters can throw a net at level 1 and with the right build choices a 1st level fighter can also throw 2 nets in a single turn. Charm Person is not a "shutdown spell", so it is 4 spells and only 4 spells if the enemies you face speaks your language and has an intelligence higher than 4, otherwise it is 2 spells, one which is only available to Druids at 1st level and the other that is only available to Wizards and Warlocks. And since now we are now looking beyond the "incapacitated" condition to "shutdown conditions", many martials have access to these or comparable effects as well, as I pointed out above. [/QUOTE]

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