Casting HOLD PERSON on someone FLYing

[Hypersmurf]

But read back what you wrote in your post above... you added many things that aren't written anywhere.

But "Flying is a purely mental action" isn't in the spell description, either, and the armor thing is evidence against it.

Nobody seems to assume that you travel around using Spider Climb while held; why Fly?

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

But read back what you wrote in your post above... you added many things that aren't written anywhere.

It seems to me that the only two things in Hypersmurf's post were cold hard facts (Fly speed reduced by wearing armor, but not by carrying it,) and logical conclusions. Or so it seems to me.

Personally, I like to think that flying requires a certain tensing of the muscles, possibly with a superman pose thrown in. It could be as simple as clenching your jaw. So a held flier cannot continue moving.

However, he doesn't fall either, just as a landbound held PC does not fall prone, even though he cannot continue walking.

 

[Li Shenron]

But "Flying is a purely mental action" isn't in the spell description, either, and the armor thing is evidence against it.

Nobody seems to assume that you travel around using Spider Climb while held; why Fly?

-Hyp.

I had the sudden feeling that I might have misunderstood the previous comment...

My idea is that when targeted by Hold Person while flying (Fly spell) you don't fall, you can hover but of course you cannot move any distance. If you were spider climbing, I'd rule that you remain attached to the wall, only still.

Armor gives you penalties only as long as you move a distance, but doesn't do anything if you hover. As armor reduces your speed, being paralized has indeed already a worse consequence, since you cannot move any distance at all, you can say that your speed is reduced to 0.

It is not straightforward... for example Fly gives you Good maneuverability which means you can hover when you don't move. That has a quite precise meaning in game terms but neverthless you can think of creatures which hover by moving wings fast (colibri) or creatures which hover and fly supernaturally... I prefer to rule that Fly works more like a supernatural ability than mundane flying.

 

[rrealm]

I appreciate all the help. I wanted to figure out what should happen when it pops up (and I’m sure it will) so I don’t spend a lot of game time getting no where.

 

[Scion]

If you fall with a fly spell on you while held then you must also fall when held while walking. So how many people have every held person fall prone?

The two conclusions seem pretty well linked to me, if you make flying people fall then you must also make walking people prone. If you do not make walking people prone then you do not make flying people fall (flying as in the fly spell of course).

As for the reduced fly speed in heavier armors though, I would simply assume that is for game balance and has no real physical aspect. Much like the arcane failure problem above and many other similar restrictions that dont make any useful sense. They just didnt want people with heavy armor to have an easy out for fast movement again (aside from mounts I suppose).

 

[Bauglir]

I think everyone agrees that you don't fall.

The question as to whether you can continue to fly around while under the influence of a Hold Person is potentially more contentious. Some would suggest that the fly spell provides a method to move around using purely mental effort, rather than the physical movement associated with walking, and that someone affected by Hold Person can still Fly.

These people are wrong of course.

(Look at my previous post for why)

 

[RigaMortus]

since you cannot move any distance at all, you can say that your speed is reduced to 0.

I don't know if I'd word it like that. If I had a Speed 0, I could still take a free 5' step. Can you take a free 5' step if you are held?

 

[Destil]

Since you're allowed to hover with fly (good) I'd rule you don't fall....

With Overland Flight however, since you need to mantain a minimum speed in order to stay aloft I'd have the held person stall out and tumble out of the sky.

 

[rrealm]

The question as to whether you can continue to fly around while under the influence of a Hold Person is potentially more contentious.

I am going with the idea that it requires at least some physical effort to fly since armor and/or a medium/heavy load slows one down which implies that there is some physical impediment while flying. With that in mind, how much physical effort is involved in hovering? Could the person hover perfectly in place despite being held or do you think it would be more accurate if they slowly drifted downwards (say 5’ per round) since they can mentally focus on hovering in place but since they cannot physically put forth the effort required for staying in place, gravity takes over but not at full effect. I hope I was clear on this. I’ll explain further if I need to.

One last thing, if one is flying and firing bows, crossbows and other ranged attacks – are there penalties involved in attacking since one may begin to “rock back and forth”.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I had the sudden feeling that I might have misunderstood the previous comment...

My idea is that when targeted by Hold Person while flying (Fly spell) you don't fall, you can hover but of course you cannot move any distance.

Oh, right. We agree, then

As someone else has pointed out, though, you can't hover with Overland Flight

Could the person hover perfectly in place despite being held?

I'd say yes, although they wouldn't be able to resist being towed or pushed around.

One last thing, if one is flying and firing bows, crossbows and other ranged attacks – are there penalties involved in attacking since one may begin to “rock back and forth”.

Not with Fly, but there is with Levitate:

A levitating creature that attacks with a melee or ranged weapon finds itself increasingly unstable; the first attack has a –1 penalty on attack rolls, the second –2, and so on, to a maximum penalty of –5. A full round spent stabilizing allows the creature to begin again at –1.

-Hyp.