Castle Zagyg - The Upper Works (review)

[MerricB]

The fact that this set spends 160 of its 200 pages detailing areas which, by Gary's own admission, weren't deemed interesting enough to explore by the original campaign participants and therefore had to be completely newly-written for this product, remains troubling (which isn't to say that those 160 pages aren't filled with very good stuff -- by all accounts they are -- but is anyone (other than, apparently, Gary himself) really ready to argue that these 160 pages of all-new material are actually better or more desirable than, say, 4 or 5 more levels of the actual legendary dungeon would've been?).

Certainly not me. I'm going to get very critical about that when I reach the analysis portion of the review; I've had a busy weekend, so it'll be in the next couple of days.

Cheers!

 

[Treebore]

The fact that this set spends 160 of its 200 pages detailing areas which, by Gary's own admission, weren't deemed interesting enough to explore by the original campaign participants and therefore had to be completely newly-written for this product, remains troubling (which isn't to say that those 160 pages aren't filled with very good stuff -- by all accounts they are -- but is anyone (other than, apparently, Gary himself) really ready to argue that these 160 pages of all-new material are actually better or more desirable than, say, 4 or 5 more levels of the actual legendary dungeon would've been?).

Probably because there are people like me who want as much as possible defined, because players will always go there, eventually. Plus I want to know what Zagygs Castle looks like, that is the name of the thing after all. So I am glad the castle is defined, and defined the way Gary imagined it and described it.

If people don't like having the Castle defined they can skip Upper Levels.

Plus I think Yggsburgh is classic Gary as well. He doesn't spell out much adventure, but via the NPC's and descriptions of the various factions I see tons of adventure possibilities. Considering this is the description of the "home base" from which forays into Castle Zagyg will be made I am thankful it is written up as an interesting town/city rather than an adventure module.

So when I take the pieces into context I have a well detailed city location from which many adventures can be had, primarily involving delves into the dungeons of Castle Zagyg. So all put together I have a great big adventure module, with a detailed town, detailed castle of a classic icon of D&D, and many levels of the most famous dungeon in D&D.

Excellent gaming goodness in my book.

 

[Lidgar]

What I am wondering is...when will it be available? It still shows only as "preorder" on the websites I visited. Thanks.

 

[Treebore]

What I am wondering is...when will it be available? It still shows only as "preorder" on the websites I visited. Thanks.

The only way I know to order it is at the Troll Lord Games website. If your in the US its best to phone in your order, the e-mail system is being redone, but they have yet to announce it being finished.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I have mixed feelings about the amount of effort that was devoted to Yggsburgh and areas outside the dungeon, proper. I, too, would have preferred to see that effort devoted to bringing the dungeon, itself, to publication. However, I think I understand some of Gary's motivation for developing Yggsburgh and the upper works of the Castle. I think he was probably aiming for a Hommlet/Moathouse/Dungeon approach (i.e. the T1 model), but writ large as a magnum opus.

The T1 model is far from my favorite EGG work, but it's undeniably "Gygaxian" and popular with a lot of people. FWIW, I used to have a higher opinion of T1, but my tastes have changed, over time, and as I mentioned, Gary's "fantasy setting" vision and mine don't mesh as well as I'd prefer. Also, I'm normally not big on a lot of setting detail in an adventure module; I almost always have to change things that don't fit my campaign, and I'd prefer to have more interesting and less mundane material take up that space in a published adventure. (A dedicated setting book is a different story, of course, but even there, I like broad strokes with lots of room for referee interpretation and addition.)

All that said, there's a lot that I like about Yggsburgh, and it is positively loaded with adventure hooks. And while I certainly understand the point about focusing on adventure instead of economics, I'm also keenly interested in economics and monetary systems (especially those based on precious metals), so I'm a sucker for that kind of thing. I appreciate that the prices in Yggsburgh "make sense," overall (assuming you agree with Gary's setting assumptions). That is, they're internally consistent, and the rate for hiring a man-at-arms makes sense alongside the price for a meal and a quart of wine, and with the yearly incomes for the various social classes. Even if you consider that kind of thing a waste of time, I don't think Gary wasted much time on Yggsburgh's economics; the economic system was already developed for LA, and he just used what was already created.

 

[T. Foster]

Given the breaking news that Jeff Talanian (Gary's co-author on CZ:UW) has officially severed his relationship with Gygax Games (the holding company for Gary's IP, managed by a guy named Spencer Wright on behalf of Gary's widow), which throws the future of this project into considerable doubt, the decision to "save the actual dungeons for later" is looking even more unfortunate.

 

[Nikosandros]

That's really bad news. So far I find all the decisions taken by Gygax Games to be really weird.

We'll see what happens...

 

[Melan]

That's really bad news. So far I find all the decisions taken by Gygax Games to be really weird.

Yes. Very... strange. And slightly alarming.

 

[TerraDave]

The monetary system intrigued me, as it seemed more historically accurate...well, at least until I saw those sword prices.

I think the Village (of Hommlet) and Keep (on the Borderlands) is a great model. But its key not to overdo it.

As for what really matters, I don't know if we were ever meant to see the dungeons of castle greyhawk.

 

[Arnwyn]

This thread had me moving from being very happy/excited to very sad.