OSR Castles&Crusades Interview

[Jahydin]

Ultimately, I can't think of anything that C&C does that isn't done better by 5E. (And I'm not a 5E mega-fan.) If I consider 5E to be "mid" but still with better production values, editing, more streamlined play - ultimately, what am I saying about C&C?

Too funny, I actually switched over to C&C because I burned out of 5e. For me, C&C has better designed classes (especially Ranger), better combat math (since it's just AD&D numbers), and way better treasure write ups (gold cost, XP value, and what level to give it out at).

@GothmogIV
Always nice to hear the Trolls talk. C&C is still one of my favorite games to talk about, but I personally stopped playing when the "Reforged" editions came out because not only did they hard pivot from emulating AD&D, but they showed no interest cleaning up/updating their rules and adventurers. Now if I'm going to C&C, I'd probably use Chris Perkin's version, AD&D 3E (can be found on the Dragonsfoot forums).

For fun though, one of my last tweaks was to allow Fighters an extra Weapon Specializations equal to their Int Bonus.

 

[GothmogIV]

I thought the Reforged editions just stripped out the OGL stuff (I don't have them, so I'm not sure how they differ)?

 

[...m...]

...i don't play C+C but i do enjoy their worldbuilding; i collect all the aihrde books and i have most of their fifth-edition modules, which i can trivially run under any 5e variant of choice...

...i appreciate that the troll lords are out there doing their thing with a sustaining audience, but as others have noted, they're perennially just a strong editor + art (including layout) budget away from broad production appeal, so their books have to be read with a forgiving eye...their new trade dress looks fantastic, it's just between the covers that their budget shows its garage-operation roots...

...at a certain level, though, that earnest sincerity is part of their charm...

 

[Retreater]

Too funny, I actually switched over to C&C because I burned out of 5e. For me, C&C has better designed classes (especially Ranger), better combat math (since it's just AD&D numbers), and way better treasure write ups (gold cost, XP value, and what level to give it out at).

I'm not trying to disagree with you, because this is clearly a subjective point, but I'm curious why you say AD&D has better combat math.
Most people say that the old style games are great because they don't care about balance. So I'm wondering what you like about the math when it doesn't seem to be a goal of older style games?

 

[Jahydin]

I'm not trying to disagree with you, because this is clearly a subjective point, but I'm curious why you say AD&D has better combat math.
Most people say that the old style games are great because they don't care about balance. So I'm wondering what you like about the math when it doesn't seem to be a goal of older style games?

HP bloat mostly. The campaign I was running got up to 13th level and combats felt like endless back and forths of whittling down each others HP. For me, it was just nonsensical. What does AC 40 even mean? What does 534 HP even mean? How does a sword swing that does 55 damage differ from a sword swing that does 12? Then there was the opposite problem from time to time, when the PCs would go absolutely nova and nuke any encounter I had setup.

AD&D/C&C HP and AC totals just feel more grounded. AC is bound 0 to 10 for non-magical defense, so it's always relatable to a type of armor. HP and damage totals are much the same. Ogres have 4 - 32 HP (19 average), for instance, so I immediately get that it takes about 4 sword strikes to take it down - reasonable. In 5e, Ogres have 28-91 (59 average), so 12 sword swings? A bit abstract really since damage output is so variable. Also, 5e Ogres having the same attack bonus throwing their javelins as they do swinging their swords despite a +5 difference bugs me too. I know it's following the rules, but I don't like it.

Just my thoughts, hope they make some sense.

 

[Distracted DM]

HP bloat is real. If I wasn't bound to the VTT I run in, I'd probably house-rule the crap out of 5e/A5E to make it more to my liking. That'd likely involve reducing stat bonuses and maybe even ditching CON's bonus to HP altogether. i dont know. but the numbers are too damn high!

Mearls' own 5e house-rule for monsters is increase damage by 35% and reduce HP by 35%; though he runs a very different game, I have seen success doing this... and I can do it easily enough in at VTT (basically dialing down hit dice and increasing relevant stats or adding a damage die or two).

 

[DarkCrisis]

We played it for just under 10 years, I want to say, after 3E D&D got to be too fiddly for me and 4E went in a direction that didn't match what I wanted out of an RPG. But C&C itself needed so many house rules for us to be happy with over time, along with the Troll Lords never-ending editorial issues, and it just got to be too much. And we had players who never really got their heads around the SIEGE engine, which I couldn't defend, as it feels like a step down from the standard d20 resolution system.

Around that time, I read a good review of Lost Mine of Phandalin and saw the box was on sale for under $20, picked it up, read the rules booklet and saw that, consciously or otherwise, the 5E designers had gone in the same direction as C&C had in many cases, but with a cleaner system, which is what I was looking for.

I do think Castles & Crusades' vibes are fantastic, second only to 1E D&D, but the Troll Lords seem indifferent to fixing typos and errors that fans compile for them in judgement-free lists, are wedded to the SIEGE Engine, and want me to care about Airdhe, which I don't. (My long-running fantasy campaign already has its own detailed setting.)

I wish them all the best, but C&C isn't for me. That said, if they ever produced systemless OSR books, I would definitely be interested in taking a look, since I really enjoy the tone and atmosphere of their books.

I bought the retro style box set and was missing rules etc. I had to look up a full book to get all the info I actually needed to play. An amazing oversight on a rather nice product.