castles in D&D

[Darmanicus]

That's why there's a phrase in Shadowrun: "Geek the mage first!"

Seriously, the basic concept of the medieval castle is sound. It's just that a few extra tactical decisions have to be made to keep up with magic, typically by keeping the best magic-user in the kingdom under the king's employ. Voluntarily or not.

EXACTLY.....magic vs magic, keep 'n' 1000 warriors 1st vs 1000 warriors...nuff said.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Has anyone addressed this in their world either home brew or published

Fly isn't the problem, disentegrate isn't either. Disentegrate (and lots of other spells) is solved by placing thing lead sheets between layers of the walls.

But in general, removing wizards and sorcerors from the battlefield and from siege operations (a la nuclear weapons) helps remove these kinds of roadblocks.

 

[painandgreed]

For the majority of purpose, castles would remain the same althought with magic there would also come magical reinforcements. While not outlined int he books very well, as soon as somebody created a spell that could destroy a castle wall, soembody else would create a spell or construction method to defend against it. Major battles are not where castles will traditionally fail but rather against small parties or lone persons with specific missions. Invisiblity, flight, climb walls, etc will mean that the main walls of the castle can be ignored by any decently prepared party or operative. Defences against such will come deeper within the castle. There will be choke points, lack of windows, and increased security. Targets of assasination, rescue or theft, will be deep within the castle not in high towers that would normally be out of reach. Even underground is not safe with burrowing monsters around. Instead, there will be an inner sanctum of the castle with very little in the ways of ingress and egress that can be carefully monitored and guarded. Common well traveled areas will suround it on all sides including top and bottom so that any blatent brute force entry will be noticed immediatly. no flying to an open window in a tower to cast a spell to assasinate the king. No bullets burrowing though the earth into the dungeon to free the imprisoned noble. Floors will be built to be creaky or with something like plush carpet to foil invisiblity or rogues sneaking about.

 

[Celebrim]

Seems like there was just a thread on this.

 

[Azgulor]

All the castles that I have seen in D&D, have architecture like Europe. But this would not be the case if magic were around? Flying would reduce the effectiveness of walls. I realize if you played in a low magic world like conan, Newhon, or even Middle Earth, that this issue would not be so important but if your game was in the Forgotten Realms or Ebberon?

Has anyone addressed this in their world either home brew or published

You've just discovered why the default level of "can't fail" magic and oodles of magic items make it very difficult (if not impossible) for D&D, as written, to emulate a fantasy setting based on the Middle Ages. And although you can discuss the rarity of magic with regards to the greater population in terms of numbers, it doesn't take many magic-using types to quickly tip the balance against such fortifications. My players and I discovered this over ten years ago when I first began introducing wars into the campaign. A couple of examples of well-conceived tactics my players employed:

Using Magic Missle to assassinate opposing generals.
Fly + Invisible cast on mid-high level fighters makes it easy to surprise the guards at the gate or in the gatehouse. Once done, it was all too easy for them to hold it against the low-level troops that made up the majority of the castle forces. Hell, the PCs reinforcements really weren't needed...
Wiping out a few squads with area spells like fireball and causing the enemy to rout.

Even if magic is "rare" in the default D&D setup, any army worth it's salt is going to enlist wizards and clerics in droves. Yet this is rarely depicted in D&D settings and usually without any in-setting explanation. At least Harn and Ars Magica have prohibitions on wizards getting involved in such matters. Iron Kingdoms recognizes the battlefield utility of wizards and incorporates them.

But it's not likely you're going to recreate Braveheart in the Forgotten Realms...

Azgulor

 

[bolen]

Dont you think Prohibitions don't really work. I mean if I am an evil wizard who wants to attack a city do you think rules will stop me (or maybe I misuderstood you)

I was thinking that in a world like the forgotten realms forts would have some kind of anti-magic shield (kinda like the typical shields that one would have in sci-fi)

What else would you need to defend your castle (or how would you build it) in a typical D&D type world?

 

[S'mon]

I use anti-magic or dispel magic zones in the air above castles & above the moat; possibly in front of the gatehouse too if attack is expected, plus the walls will be enchanted with spell resistance as well as mundane protections like lead sheeting. It's a reasonable assumption that a "CR15" castle will have protections vs CR 15 foes. Of course sometimes level 15 PCs attack a CR 9 castle, then they get to kick ass and have fun.

 

[Hussar]

Another option is to model castles after their real world counterparts after the advent of gun powder in Europe. A citadel arrangement, where you dig into the top of a hill, effectively using the hill itself as walls, would would exceptionally well against most things. Because your walls are now several hundred feet thick, you don't have to worry about things blowing holes in them.

Granted, flying enemies are still a major problem, but, repeating ballistae can be highly effective against that. Build everything in your citadel out of stone and it won't burn, at least it won't burn easily. That nice gentle slope everyone has to run up to get to your first entrenchments makes for great enfillade fire from your archers.

Another option is to go bunker style. This could finally be a real justification for the existence of dungeons in your world. There's a reason there's a maze of deadly traps in the side of that hill - it's a former outpost that was overrun. Some of the traps are gone now, but many have reset themselves with magic.

 

[S'mon]

I don't generally use those slanted gunpowder-era walls IMC although they might be a good idea to defeat Disintegrate, Passwall etc - generally speaking, I let offensive magic be defeated by defensive magic of similar level, and level 6+ spells are fairly rare anyway. A low-magic country that had to deal with higher-magic enemies might well build Eben Emael style fortresses, though. (S'mon has visions of SS Ftr-15s Flying Invisibly through the Belgian Dispel Magic Zones while SS Wizards try to Passwall the SR'd walls...)

 

[Gez]

It would affect architecture a bit (lead sheets everywhere in the masonry!), but not much. You'd have more roofed parts within the castle itself (no crenelations in the open air), and you would have arrow slits (obturable in case of rain) in said roofs to allow defenders to fire at flying threats.

The basic principle of walling yourself up and keeping only tiny holes to rain fire and destruction on the enemy stays sound. (Cover bonus to AC and Ref saves! Just what you need against fireballs and dragon breath. And with 3e's initial 9/10th cover, they're even better.)

Even if flying foes are common, the simple fact of forcing them to fly high (to bypass the walls) and being on a high ground yourself is useful.

Now, the real killer are burrowing monsters, like thoqquas, xorns, earth elementals... But most of the time they'll be summoned. A few abjurers can banish them.

One thing I would expect to see in castles is magic circles akin to those in the Miniature Skirmish game. Give +1 attack bonus to those who are on it, and their attacks are considered magical for purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Put one atop a tower, and a squad of archer, and there go your flying, protected from arrows, mage, or your not-that-old dragon.