Celestials

[Believer]

Ok, I am currently in a debate with my DM over the Celestial language. My paladin can read and speak it (in his campaign you have to buy literacy as a skill).

Well, we are currently in a 'debate' over whether or not I should be allowed to swear in celestial. He doesn't think that there is a 'swear word' in the language. I believe there is, and because the other player characters don't know celestial, I want to be able to swear without them knowing it.

(Yes I know this whole thing is a minor point... but what can I say, I'm picky over certain things.)

-Also, the only code of conduct I'm restricted by right now is the morals that I live by (since we are starting at apprentice levels and the oldest characters are 16).


Any opinions on it?

 

[Mytholder]

I think that's quite a cute idea. You could probably still say stuff like "damn them", but it would be a much more meaningful and dangerous statement when spoken in Celestial.

In my campaign, you can't lie in Draconic - only dragons have that option. It's made negotiating with dragons much more interesting. Little twists like that remind players that languages like Draconic, Celestial and Infernal aren't just other ways of speaking, they are the product of entirely alien and magical thinking.

 

[Terraism]

I like the idea of no lying in Draconic. Mmm - I think I've just stolen that. Very Earthsea-ish. Now I just need something unique for infernal.

On the topic of the thread... hmm. Mytholder's got a good point about the "sound" of swearing in Celestial. Assuming it's possible, perhaps doing so has consequences beyond just the harsh sound. Perhaps "damn them" in Celestial is actually a request, and using it too often could annoy the god or gods...

 

[Umbran]

Any opinions on it?

I'll betcha your DM's problem isn't with swearing, but with being dirty, vulgar, and using 4-letter words like an English speaker does.

If we consider celestials to have anything even remotely approximating understandable human psychology, then they'll have things they say when the chips are down, or they're upset. These things may be nothing at all akin to modern English "swears". They may be more like old fashioned "God's blood!" or "God's wounds!" (which eventually became "Zounds!"). They may choose to use similar religious references in times of stress. Or they may swear like a dwarf, referring to things they dont like, but aren't particularly nasty to human ears ("Shards! You half-brewed son of a doorknob!").

In other words, celestials may have "swears" that aren't vulgar to human ears.

The other being that celestials will have words for many of the things we do. They'll have an expression for cowflops in the field, for example. You can choose to use that as a "swear" even though celestials don't normally use them in such a way. If an actual celestial ever hears you using the language that way, it'd be very confused

 

[Yair]

Even if there are no swear-words as such, you can certainly come up with some. "By the flaming fires of Baaotr!" or simply "Abomination!" should certainly exist.

As for actual swear-words... if you mean swearing as in indicating suprise/revultion, I'm sure there would be; perhaps pious ones, such as "Goodly graces", perhaps not-so-pious such as "holy s**t"). If you mean foul, demeaning, offensive talk - perhaps there aren't. Although I tend to think some insults could certainly be uttered (even simply "fallen" should be quite offensive, me thinks, in celestial-context, and I am sure the language contains many nuances of stages of falling from grace and non-goodly beeings/behaviour); why insist on "indecent" ones?
As an aside, I don't think there is something inherently indecent about sex, so I would imagine all our more... ehm... sexual-oriented swear-words would have equivalents in Celestial, but whether they would be used as swear-words is another matter.

 

[Voadam]

Ok, I am currently in a debate with my DM over the Celestial language. My paladin can read and speak it (in his campaign you have to buy literacy as a skill).

Well, we are currently in a 'debate' over whether or not I should be allowed to swear in celestial. He doesn't think that there is a 'swear word' in the language. I believe there is, and because the other player characters don't know celestial, I want to be able to swear without them knowing it.

(Yes I know this whole thing is a minor point... but what can I say, I'm picky over certain things.)

-Also, the only code of conduct I'm restricted by right now is the morals that I live by (since we are starting at apprentice levels and the oldest characters are 16).


Any opinions on it?

Ask your DM then if there are words for where Devils live and the conditions of their souls.

Even though a celestial might not use those words as a way to vent frustration, your 16 year old might.

 

[Wicht]

Heres how to win this debate:

Agree with your DM that there are no vulgar words in Celestial.
Then ask him if he agrees there are negative words in Celestial. i.e. "Fallen"

Then come up with a list of Negative words that can be used deragatorily - "You Fallen Orc," You Negative Energy Bartender," etc.

I might agree with your DM though that in his world it is possible that Celestial cannot be used to convey a sense of hate or malice. If that is the case, your curses would be more statements of pity.

 

[Wicht]

Double Post - Wonky Boards

 

[Believer]

Damnit Myth... you just gave him another idea he liked...

Anyway, it looks good so far, very different ways of thinking and some points (and ideas) that I wouldn't have thought of. Keep it coming and help me swear in Celestial (or help him not let me swear in Celestial)

 

[Mytholder]

Off the top of my head - special properties for special languages:

Abyssal: Words mean what I want them to mean - the language changes depending on the whims of certain very powerful demons.
Aquan: Meanings are altered/conveyed through gradations of depth.
Auran: Spoken only - no written version
Celestial: no swearing
Draconic: no lying, except for native speakers
Druidic: meaning of certain words changes depending on the current season
Ignan: no punctuation...all the words just run together
Infernal: Non-native speakers cannot tell the truth under any circumstances
Sylvan: ?
Terran: ?
Undercommon: ?