Challenging my high-lvl group (NPCs and monsters; my players shouldn't read this!)

[Kaodi]

And Most Obscure Of All

Could there possibly be a third worm, the runt of the original group, but most intelligent of them all, that managed to escape notice of even the gods? This would sort of be a huge " Things You Assumed To Be True But Are Not " kind of surprise...

This one must have perceived its purpose differently from the others to begin with, its senses reaching out to divine certain events and possibilities that would lead to a greater fulfillment of its primal purpose than all out destuction and chaos every moment of its existence. Maybe forseeing that the gods would win, it engineered some of the events that lead up to its stronger brethren, Elder and the other Worm, to being sealed away rather than destroyed like the others...

 

[Seule]

If a fly speed of 180 ft (perfect), along with five rounds of haste per day, and the caster ability of an at least 21th level character is "mostly immobile", I don't want to see what a truly mobile character is capable of.

Okay, so I should have looked up the creature before posting.

Hmm, the Worms predate the gods. Do they predate Demons and Devils? Maybe some of those have useful information. Elementals also have no specific lifespan. Heck, there might well be some really old fey that would have info, I suggest the Epic Level Handbook is full of ancient creatures.
Then again, there's that PrC for mind-flayers in Savage Species (IIRC) that allows them to absorb knowledge from victims. Perhaps one of those got to some sage, and the PCs now have to negotiate with an abomination? Or maybe a Neh-Thalggu from (again) ELH.
Then, as well, there's the Worms themselves, presumably trying to squash knowledge of their own past. They might well use agents (like they used Stone Bear), perhaps a Vermiurge or a Worm that Walks (ELH again) would do? I'd really like to see a Worm that Walks using the Engulf attack on Agar (or maybe Cruciel). I suspect he'd have nightmares for years.

...why do I seem to have one specific book on the brain? Oh well.

I do strongly suggest that at least one source of information they find have deliberate misinformation. It's no fun unless the PCs realize at the last minute that things are going horribly wrong. "What, you mean common salt won't kill it on contact? Oh noes!"

--Seule

 

[Kaodi]

I do strongly suggest that at least one source of information they find have deliberate misinformation. It's no fun unless the PCs realize at the last minute that things are going horribly wrong. "What, you mean common salt won't kill it on contact? Oh noes!"

--Seule

A blind man that tells them water is poisonous to the Worms?

 

[Graywolf-ELM]

Lot's of good ideas here. These may have aspects of previous posts in them.

- Worm Food - What about the current worms, that are obviously descended from the Ancient "Worms" - Purple Worms (An ancient, creature of Legend, Elder, Abyssal , Awakened, advanced, Lich even<your templates may vary>) Wurm. Who has possibly made recent contact with the "Worms" again, or not. This ancient creature has many wurm spawn as servitors and guardians, but could be convinced to communicate.

- Extra-planar creatures of advanced age might have data on the "Worms." Possible contact with the Queen of the Gith, or whoever has supplanted her, if things have gone that far in your game setting.

- Nature and some of its' aspects as some have mentioned. Was nature undead at the time, and the coming of the gods brought new life to the earth mother(or father). She/He would have some memory of pre-god times with the "Worms"

- Something akin to the "Watcher" (tm) from comic book fame, who always watches, but is never allowed to interfere. Hard to get any information out of him, if at all possible.

- The earth Oracle that someone else mentioned, that allowed for exit from the Dwarven vaults, in exchange for a commitment to free her sister trapped in the Ice of the sacred pool at the Kuo Toa city. She might have some knowledge. Would elementals and such be considered alive, to have been killed by the "Worms"?

 

[Elocin]

Here are a couple of ideas that might work out for you...

They could seek out some gnome inventor that makes these little devices that run on wheels of some kind, possibly a new form called - rubber. Then there are these other mechanical devices that can, say remotely, drive the previous devices around on the desert floor. When the "Wurms" sense the trem....err, vibrations from deep within the ground and come up to investigate, possibly even eating these devices. The wizards of the group could detonate their Delayed Blast fireballs, killing the creatures.

or

They could find some scrap of paper that has a detailed picture of one of the wurms on it, but nothing else. When they try and discover where this piece of parchment came from they discover it came from one of the oldest libraries of the Modron’s. Then upon finding said library and the reference they discover that they have to actually talk to the Modron librarian.

I dunno, these are just some thoughts that came to mind.

Then again, you might have to run for your life once your players realize what is going on.

 

[The_Warlock]

I noticed Seule already mentioned the Worm that Walks - which I think has a lot of potential. Especially if you work him as an ally with a hidden agenda. Have him actually be a previous agent of Elder, a powerful wizard who willingly agreed to aid elder's plans in exchange for immortality through his worm form. He may actually have been the one who figured out how to allow Elder to access the dreams of others and project himself out of the great prison (and eventually into a certain shaman's head). Except now, he wants out, he finds himself bound to do Elder's wishes in some fashion, and wants his freedom. That doesn't make him a nice walking verminoid, but he's certainly willing to play the PCs for what he wants. He's likely learned about a ritual which will allow Elder to be bound somehow, but he can't do it alone, and has changed it in his millenia of servitude to allow him to BECOME Elder, essentially possessing the Great Worm's body, and thus with a different true name, no longer affectable by the same ritual.

Also, the prehistory describes the world as a charnel house of destruction with the worms destroying everything - were there seas or oceans? Perhaps there is a deep sea creature or race who survived the worms attentions by being in the seas...or perhaps Krakens are the most intelligent offspring of the elder worms, having sought the water to escape the binding nature of stone that the gods used against the worms.

Taking another somewhat Cthulhu-ish reference...what if they find that the tremors of Elder moving through the earth cause nightmares? These nightmare's have a metaphysical connection to Elder's greater plans, but only when interpreted through the eyes of the innocent, those not jaded by their own corruption. Thus begins a quest to find children of every race who have felt the terror of the earth, and all of the hints and clues come through the descriptive capabilities of 6 to 10 year olds.

When the gods came forth to bind the worms, did they bring with them an angelic host? Perhaps the leader of that host under the direction of the gods brought the fight to the worms while the gods worked at the binding. Though victorious, the general of the angels was corrupted by the blood of the worms, and slowly turned from righteousness and betrayed the gods, and was cast down, either to the world, or the hells, for his transgressions. Immortal, his eternal punishment is remembering the light, or perhaps madness, with only moments of lucidity, or perhaps he has become a demon lord who now lusts after souls. Wouldn't he be an interesting person to bargin with for firsthand information about the worms.

That's all I have today. Can't wait to here more in the story hours. You are vicious, in a grand and complimentary way...

 

[Lela]

Why am I getting a vision of a few purple worms coming up through the floor while they're in council with Ioun?

And can I see the actual Champion granted powers you built up for Crucial? The full progression, not just the first ones (before she became champ of old V).

 

[Ashy]

The question I keep asking myself is why?

Why, way back in pre-history, were the worms destroying everything? Perhaps the worms are ***THE*** cosmic agents of destruction? Perhaps they are the anthesis of creation itself? Perhaps it was determined that Spira needed to meet its end and they were merely doing what they had always done, moving through the void until, drawn by the metaphysical "scent" of a bloated, dying world, they moved in for the "kill"? Perhaps that is why they are now so angry and why they have remained bound to Spira for so long - they cannot move on until they have fufilled their purpose, which is to return the entire planet to the void of nothingness from whence it came?

If this is the case, then there are many ways to learn more about the worms (many of them have been listed previously), but you have to have, IMHO, a primal, defining reason for why the worms where doing what they were doing to begin with. Perhaps, deep within the Deep Ethereal Plane (the plane of proto-creation, remember), there is a place where everything that was, is, or will be created initially begins to form as a tiny drop of proto-matter (The Womb of Creation, perhaps?). If so, maybe this place contains such fundamental secrets of every thing (living, non-living, dead, animate, or inanimate) that merely being there grants one complete knowledge about that thing (in this case, the worms). However, the only problem is that the closer you come to the Womb, the more your very existence is reduced to its fundamental and primal parts - basilly to begin to dissolve into that which makes you up.

Might be a pretty nifty chanllenge for a group of high-level characters to surmount, eh? I can just hear it now:

Malachite: "Ok, so all we have to go is travel through the Ethereal, to this "Womb", and remain inside long enough to learn everything about the worms, right?"

Agar: "Right."

Malachite: "Sounds easy enough - what's the catch?"

Agar: "Well, we have to figure out a way to keep our bodies and souls from dissolving into nothingness while we are there..."

Malachite (clucks tongue): "Uh-huh..."



I live to serve, O Great Three-legged One!

 

[Piratecat]

Some spectacular ideas here! Of course, there's also some I can't use because they mirror things I've already done. (Example: I recently had a NPC based on the worm-that-walks template, although I may be able to work it back in again without people realizing it's the same basic monster.)

I'll do some thinking about my pre-history and give you folks some more details.

 

[Kugar]

PC,
What if Spira were sentenced to die? What if there was (or maybe still is) something or someone so dangerous to the rest of creation that it was deemed prudent to destroy it by other pantheons or beings more supreme than the current gods. Could Imbindarla been the only god not rebelling against a direct order from an "overgod"? The worms might view Aeos and crew as criminals and tainted. Perhaps there is an ancient file in some cabinet tucked in some ancient hidey-hole in Sigil that used to belong to the Fraternal Order that lists "All natives of Spira must die a horrible, excruciating, soul-devouring death" as a fundamental law of creation. What secrets could be buried in the world that would make the judgment just?

What if Imbindarla thought she found a way to control the worms? That would explain her part in the comet cycle. Could she have secretly taken on a "god of unknowable secrets" portfolio (which of course no one knew about). What if the bargain for destroying the worms were restoring Imbindarla's powers to one of her proxies. Maybe her death was a gambit, and her followers are moving the final pieces into checkmate.

What if something the worms have already eaten has survived inside the worms for all these years. Could the answers they need be in the gullet of the beasts? Are the PCs strong enough to survive the journey to find out?

There has to be at least one leader who has a skilled seer as an advisor and wants to help. Maybe he is sleazy, and has no real knowledge or ability to help but bluffs his way in negotiations (there is this ancient library my people know about...), is overzealous (what do you mean we are not going after them - I just mobilized my armies. Who's going to feed them? or Oh, I just sent a my favorite group of adventurers after the worms), or opportunistic (Mobilizing the armies of Gaunt? You don't say!)

If Elder was talking to StoneBear, maybe there is someone the other worm was using.

Wouldn't it be funny if one of the members of Eversink's ruling council up and vanished all sneaky and hurriedly like with lots of bloodshed. I wonder how the negotiations would go if they wanted to ask the DoD for a favor.

I can also see a croc-hunter type of world devouring worm expert. .
"Crickey! This is one of the largest world-devouring worms I've ever seen. Let's take a closer look."
"See while most worms have no teeth, this one has some sharp fangs that could take your arm right off." Wham! Spurt, Spurt. "See just like that."
"Normally you would get a friend to help put that limb back on, but as you can see I am in it's soul-eating gullet. If you look real closely you can even see the half digested remains of all the other people the worm has recently swallowed. Wait, it's getting dark in here. Either I just failed a will save or I'm fainting from loss of blood. Either way I'll see you next we....'

Kugar