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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 4611849" data-attributes="member: 2020">Insight?&nbsp; Nothing special.&nbsp; I honestly believe our game suffers undeserved blame.&nbsp; It has been demonized for a situation it did not create.&nbsp; What is the situation?&nbsp; How does the situation devolve into trouble and blame?&nbsp; The mechanics of this are simple and easy to follow, and they involve the darker aspects of ourselves:&nbsp; - I like this game!&nbsp; - Well, I like it too!&nbsp; - Let's play it!&nbsp; - Yes, let's play it!&nbsp; (A lot of time passes, a lot of fun is had)&nbsp; (The players, and DM, due to problems (sighs ... inevitable problems ...) totally unrelated to the game, slowly become antagonistic towards each other.&nbsp; This antagonism spills into the game, creating a downward spiral.)&nbsp; - I like this rule.&nbsp; - Well, I do not like this rule.&nbsp; &nbsp; - I really dislike this rule.&nbsp; - I think it is stupid to use this rule.&nbsp; - I think it is idiotic to use this rule.&nbsp; - I think it is ok to use this rule.&nbsp; - * I think there is something wrong with anyone who uses this rule. *&nbsp; - I think there is something wrong with you.&nbsp; - I share the reverse sentiment.&nbsp; - I do not like you.&nbsp; - I do not like you, either.&nbsp; - I really do not like you.&nbsp; - Likewise.&nbsp; - I think we shall part ways now.&nbsp; - I concur.&nbsp; Today, we part ways ... forever.&nbsp; This Death Spiral is made all the more easy by the fact D&amp;D must have open ended rules, but it is started by friction from non-gaming sources ... but it is the *D&amp;D game* which gets blamed, not the other source.&nbsp; Which is profoundly unfair to the game.&nbsp; D&amp;D did not invent the Real World and it's problems.&nbsp; D&amp;D did not invent people and their problems.&nbsp; D&amp;D did not invent all the difficulties faced by people.&nbsp; Or it's various competitors (such as the internet and everything on it.)&nbsp; Or the social changes.&nbsp; Or, a lot of other stuff I can't go into on ENWorld.&nbsp; But D&amp;D gets blamed for it.&nbsp; And those who design and market it.&nbsp; And vendors.&nbsp; And a lot of other people who are not at fault, but who are caught up in the melee.&nbsp; Even in chess, with it's hard and set rules, they have their problems getting along.&nbsp; And heck, they don't even TALK during the game (it isn't allowed!)&nbsp; It isn't a Social Interaction game at all, not at least during the game itself.&nbsp; D&amp;D is, and if someone is having trouble from non-gaming sources (meaning ... *ALL* of us, altogether, all the time, but sometimes we can supress those problems long enough to have fun ... or, at least, get it our best shot! ...) then the problem comes crashing into the game.&nbsp; If someone else is having a problem, this can be like shaking a bottle of nitroglycerin, and the results are as bad.&nbsp; In the end, what is to blame?&nbsp; Well, the blame goes to a lot of things, and the personal fallacies of human beings (who amongst us is perfect?&nbsp; Who never makes mistakes??)&nbsp; But it is not D&amp;D which is to blame.&nbsp; D&amp;D, was the instrument through which people tried to have fun, the instrument to enable some fun.&nbsp;&nbsp; Yet time and again, what gets most or all of the blame?&nbsp; The D&amp;D game.&nbsp; A different edition, whether that edition is a good one or a bad one, will not fix this problem.&nbsp; Nor will people start being perfect and stop having problems.&nbsp; All we can do is wage a constant battle for the purpose of ... having fun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 4611849, member: 2020"] Insight? Nothing special. I honestly believe our game suffers undeserved blame. It has been demonized for a situation it did not create. What is the situation? How does the situation devolve into trouble and blame? The mechanics of this are simple and easy to follow, and they involve the darker aspects of ourselves: - I like this game! - Well, I like it too! - Let's play it! - Yes, let's play it! (A lot of time passes, a lot of fun is had) (The players, and DM, due to problems (sighs ... inevitable problems ...) totally unrelated to the game, slowly become antagonistic towards each other. This antagonism spills into the game, creating a downward spiral.) - I like this rule. - Well, I do not like this rule. - I really dislike this rule. - I think it is stupid to use this rule. - I think it is idiotic to use this rule. - I think it is ok to use this rule. - * I think there is something wrong with anyone who uses this rule. * - I think there is something wrong with you. - I share the reverse sentiment. - I do not like you. - I do not like you, either. - I really do not like you. - Likewise. - I think we shall part ways now. - I concur. Today, we part ways ... forever. This Death Spiral is made all the more easy by the fact D&D must have open ended rules, but it is started by friction from non-gaming sources ... but it is the *D&D game* which gets blamed, not the other source. Which is profoundly unfair to the game. D&D did not invent the Real World and it's problems. D&D did not invent people and their problems. D&D did not invent all the difficulties faced by people. Or it's various competitors (such as the internet and everything on it.) Or the social changes. Or, a lot of other stuff I can't go into on ENWorld. But D&D gets blamed for it. And those who design and market it. And vendors. And a lot of other people who are not at fault, but who are caught up in the melee. Even in chess, with it's hard and set rules, they have their problems getting along. And heck, they don't even TALK during the game (it isn't allowed!) It isn't a Social Interaction game at all, not at least during the game itself. D&D is, and if someone is having trouble from non-gaming sources (meaning ... *ALL* of us, altogether, all the time, but sometimes we can supress those problems long enough to have fun ... or, at least, get it our best shot! ...) then the problem comes crashing into the game. If someone else is having a problem, this can be like shaking a bottle of nitroglycerin, and the results are as bad. In the end, what is to blame? Well, the blame goes to a lot of things, and the personal fallacies of human beings (who amongst us is perfect? Who never makes mistakes??) But it is not D&D which is to blame. D&D, was the instrument through which people tried to have fun, the instrument to enable some fun. Yet time and again, what gets most or all of the blame? The D&D game. A different edition, whether that edition is a good one or a bad one, will not fix this problem. Nor will people start being perfect and stop having problems. All we can do is wage a constant battle for the purpose of ... having fun. [/QUOTE]

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