Changes to Core Races/Classes/Feats

[Caeleddin]

These are some changes I was considering for an upcoming campaign. The setting is a world of legends. Heroes are larger than life, the winters are cold, rampaging dragons, and an ultra big BBEG over the eastern mountain range. Remember, these are Core rules and SRD Psion Handbook ONLY.

Races
Humans: get Bastard Sword as Martial Weapon (still need 13 Str, though)
Dwarves: 13 Str requirement for Waraxe in one hand
Elves: +1 to-hit and damage with bows if they are already profficient with them, free profficiency otherwise (but no bonus)
Half-Orcs: get Double Axe as Martial Weapon

All races get 1 extra feat at level 1 that they MUST spend on level 1 only feats: Luck of Heroes, Serpent Blood, Strong Soul, Wild Talent (for Psis or Sorcerors), etc.

Classes
Paladin: I am thinking of up-ing the power of this class as I find it very underpowered compared to others. Suggestions? I was thinking of giving him a domain.
Ranger: Would making the animal companion = level-3 instead of level/2 make this class grossly overpowered?

Feats
Metamagic feats do not force a full round action. Sorcerors/Bard still cannot take Quicken Spell
TWF gives no penalty for light weapon in off-hand, -2/-2 for one handed weapons
ITWF gives 1 extra off-hand attack AND eliminates penalty
GTWF gives number of attacks with off-hand equal to primary hand AND gives full Str bonus to off-hand
Improved Two Weapon Defense (with TWD and Dex 15 as pre-requisites) gives another +1 shield AC
Manyshot allows targetting of multiple enemies
Greater Manyshot reduces extra arrow penalty to -3 each
Quickdraw allows you to sheath your weapon as a free action as well as draw it
Wild Talent gives 2 PP AND 1 Level 1 Power OR 1 each of Level 0 and Level 1 spell slot and spell known (depending on Psi or Sorc). You will need to have this feat to be a Psionic Class or a Sorceror


Comments? Critiques? Shall I bring out the flame retardent materials?

 

[yennico]

Races
Humans: get Bastard Sword as Martial Weapon (still need 13 Str, though)
Dwarves: 13 Str requirement for Waraxe in one hand
Elves: +1 to-hit and damage with bows if they are already profficient with them, free profficiency otherwise (but no bonus)
Half-Orcs: get Double Axe as Martial Weapon

1. You are improving this races but you do not improve e.g. the gnomes, halflings. For the reason of balance you also should improve them.
2. You improve these races but you do not improve the monster races.

I would not allow a bastard sword as martial weapon. Being a martial weapon then a bastard sword can be used by any class proficient with martial weapons in one and in two hands.

An elf gets a weapon focus (bow) for free plus a damage bonus. An elven fighter with a bow and str 10, dex 12 only has a ranged attack bonus (bow) of +3 and an damage bonus of +1
A human fighter with str 10, dex 10 (he gets no +2 on dex) has only a ranged attack bonus (bow) of +1 and no damage bonus.

All races get 1 extra feat at level 1 that they MUST spend on level 1 only feats: Luck of Heroes, Serpent Blood, Strong Soul, Wild Talent (for Psis or Sorcerors), etc.

One feat is not a great deal. But remember: giving the PCs one more feat weakens the fighter, because one of the biggest advantages of a fighter is that he gets more feats than any other class.

I do not comment your other suggestions because of lack of time.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Comments..

My first thought is:

Can I play a Human Rogue/Fighter? at second level I would be able to dual weild a Bastard sword and a short sword with no penatly and probably get sneak attacks with each.

At later levels.. double my attacks? Even with a puny +2D6 Sneak attack, magic weapons, power attack, cleave and striking from invisible.......and enlarged....

Otherwize..
Racial weapons are already trated as Martial weapons for the race, so you really are only giving benefits to humans and elves.

Echo the reply to the extra feat... stealing the fighters thunder.

Palidin and ranger are quite powerful as they are. Their main limitation is that the DM must craft the game to thier strengths. Alter how you approach the game instead of changing the classes. Otherwize you will find you have uber-powered characters when the game hits thier stride.

Require a feat to join a class? it would be better to declare the classes a +1 LA and grant them the feat for free.

Quickdraw.... hmm... a couple of threads have covered this in the past.. but not recent enough for the limited search engine here. Perhaps a feat for quick-sheath, otherwize you will have to make house rulings on how many free actions someone gets... because of:
What, a Troll and a Mummy? I quickdraw my Flaming sword and take my first two attacks on teh mummy.. quicksheath it and quickdraw my Troll Bane greatsword for my last attack...

Essentially you reduce the value of DR and resistances as your PC's can fit the weapon to the monster without the penalty of dropping thier current weapon on the ground. This is a great tactical advantage, definatly worth the cost of another feat.

 

[Caeleddin]

Umm.... The extra feat is for a non-Fighter related feat AND only 1st level feats. Those are not on the standard PHB feat list, so the Fighter can't choose them to begin with.

What do you suggest with TWF, then, as I find it to be very underpowered for a 4 feat combo?

Ok. I was a bit dubious about the Ranger, but the Paladin? I see them at a disadvantage at almost every scenario EXCEPT one to do with undead. Even then, they get overshadowed by a Cleric. Where would a Paladin shine that a similar level *insert almost any other class here* would not?

To equate a feat with a level makes me wonder if you really know what you are talking about....

True about the Quick Sheath. Is there an action that can occur like the 5ft step (ie., not interfering with attacks or full round actions, but not counted as move equivalent or standard action)? That would solve the problem you pointed out.

 

[Laman Stahros]

Umm.... The extra feat is for a non-Fighter related feat AND only 1st level feats. Those are not on the standard PHB feat list, so the Fighter can't choose them to begin with.

I don't see why an extra feat at 1st level would be a problem. An extra feat at 1st level does not steal any thunder from the fighter. An extra feat at multiple levels would.

What do you suggest with TWF, then, as I find it to be very underpowered for a 4 feat combo?

I've never noticed these feats being weak. In fact, they seem very good. What do you find weak about this feat chain?

Ok. I was a bit dubious about the Ranger, but the Paladin? I see them at a disadvantage at almost every scenario EXCEPT one to do with undead. Even then, they get overshadowed by a Cleric. Where would a Paladin shine that a similar level *insert almost any other class here* would not?

I haven't noticed any weakness in the paladin, but then I have yet to have a player choose this class in 3e.

True about the Quick Sheath. Is there an action that can occur like the 5ft step (ie., not interfering with attacks or full round actions, but not counted as move equivalent or standard action)? That would solve the problem you pointed out.

Well, there is the swift action. Its like a free action (takes no time) but you only do one per round.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

To equate a feat with a level makes me wonder if you really know what you are talking about....

Yes, its mildly absurd... but, consider. The suggestion grants bonus feat to all classes but the Psion and Sorcerer. This forces an extra cost that will make these classes less likely to be chosen by a player. Also mildly absurd. The answer depends on your goal. WHy do you want to limit Psions and Sorcerers?

Extra Feat:.. I was echoing the concern that granting bonus feats to all classes will weaken the Fighters big claim to fame. I did not say it would not be a bad idea. As long as you give *all* the classes the same benefit.

TWF is a better option for a character that can pull additional dice, such as Sneak Attacks, than pure Tank style. Adding the Bastard Sword and then the ability to double you number of attacks makes it the most effective single round melee option.


A Palidin is high Charisma, anti-undead. If your game does not cater to CHR based abilities, then you are right in saying that they are weak. Just as a Bard is partially nerfed in most games.
Rangers must have wilderness encounters, altho the 3.5 favored enemy improved thier capability to a fair degree.

Most modules cater to the Fighter/Rogue/Mage/Cleric 'standard' party, making it appear that the Bard/Druid/Ranger/Palidin look less than capable. IME, these classes can truely shine given the right challenges, well the 'standard' characters can appear less than capable in those types of games.
When was the last time you had the party adventure in inhospitable weather? The kind that deals non-lethal damage due to exposure unless you have a PC who has the skills and equipement to defeat this encounter? The kind that can be considered a challange and gain XP for defeating?
Or an encounter where you had to 'defeat' a mob of angry villagers by convincing them that the Heroes would be better off sneaking into the evil overloards castle without them?

It may be blasphemy to say in this forum, but Rules are not needed to fix every aspect of the game. I think you could get along in your game quite nicely with the base 3.5 rules and using those slightly out of touch rules such as diplomancy and inhospitable weather.

 

[Caeleddin]

Primitive Screwhead - True it lowers the Sorc/Psion by about +1 save, but Sorcs can use metamagic feats as standard actions instead of full round actions. As for Psi types, I was thinking of giving Psions and Wilders Psi Crystal Affinity for free to bring it in line with the familiars Wizzies get. Also, Psi races don't need the feat to operate. For the equivalent of 2PP and 1 extra Power known, I don't see why anyone would not get it, though. It is superior to Expanded Knowledge (for that level, when you can't get it to begin with) and it is something that a Sorc will never get until Epic levels (extra spells known).

Nevermind the CLASSES. All RACES get it. That means you can choose this feat even before you choose a class. This only applies to PCs and the BBEG type of NPCs, too.

Didn't some people here in the Rules section do a mathematical analysis of TWF and found it worse than THW? Even with the additional attack a round (it is only 1 at your LOWEST iterative bonus) and no penalty and full Str bonus with the off-hand, it was barely in line with THW because of 1 feat: Power Attack. And that does not include DR, which will totally hose the TWF fighter compared to the THW one.

Sorcs and Cles tend to have high Cha as well. They work just as well for Diplomacy if need be (done it before). I have done Arctic style weather before as well. No problems there.


Laman - It does less damage than Two-Handed Weapon Fighter for 4 feats, and that is not taking into account DR.

Maybe because players have wisen up to the fact that Paladins got nerfed when all the other classes went up in power going from 3.0 to 3.5?

Swift action. Hmm... That would be a good solution. Thanks.

 

[Laman Stahros]

Didn't some people here in the Rules section do a mathematical analysis of TWF and found it worse than THW? Even with the additional attack a round (it is only 1 at your LOWEST iterative bonus) and no penalty and full Str bonus with the off-hand, it was barely in line with THW because of 1 feat: Power Attack. And that does not include DR, which will totally hose the TWF fighter compared to the THW one.

Laman - It does less damage than Two-Handed Weapon Fighter for 4 feats, and that is not taking into account DR.

Swift action. Hmm... That would be a good solution. Thanks.

Do you have citation for the bolded area? I have always understood it that the additional attack is at your HIGHEST iterative bonus.

Well, if your focused on (what most people call) min-maxing, then yes, TWF is weaker than THW. I have never had a player worry about maxing out their damage in that way.

Newer books list the swift action and the immediate action. Glad to help.

 

[Caeleddin]

Laman - Just trying to balance it, that's all. I am the DM, so I am not to worried about mini-maxing. Mini-maxing only benefits the players (and the BBEG).

My exact wording of it is "GTWF gives number of attacks with off-hand equal to primary hand AND gives full Str bonus to off-hand". I can see where you got the wrong impression. I meant that you use the SAME iterative attacks as per the primary hand (normal GTWF stops at 3 attacks with the off-hand), so you can get up to 4 attacks with your off-hand at full Str bonus. The PHB TWF feats all give you the bonuses of your iterative primary hand attacks. I thought this was understood.

I believe that for a 3 feat chain (4 if you include TWD or ISB), TWF being slightly more powerful than THW is acceptable, don't you? Compare the difference of an archer with Rapid shot and without Rapid shot, and that is only a 2 feat chain.

 

[Bront]

These are some changes I was considering for an upcoming campaign. The setting is a world of legends. Heroes are larger than life, the winters are cold, rampaging dragons, and an ultra big BBEG over the eastern mountain range. Remember, these are Core rules and SRD Psion Handbook ONLY.

Races
Humans: get Bastard Sword as Martial Weapon (still need 13 Str, though)
Dwarves: 13 Str requirement for Waraxe in one hand
Elves: +1 to-hit and damage with bows if they are already profficient with them, free profficiency otherwise (but no bonus)
Half-Orcs: get Double Axe as Martial Weapon

Simply adding a weapon to a race as a martial weapon only effects a few classes. You want something that is more universal, or at least can be (skill bonus, vision, ect). Weapons are a bit more cultural. So, do ALL humans like to use the Bastard Sword?
Dwarves tweek isn't a tweek as much as a rules clairification. See above notes.
Elves: I'd either leave the elves alone, or simply give them a +1 to hit with bows. Or find something else to tweek.
Half-Orcs: See comments about weapons, though I think this is actualy a good idea for Half-Orcs, I'd give them something else too (I always though they were underpowered).
What about Gnomes, Half-Elves, and Halflings? Or are they non-existant?

All races get 1 extra feat at level 1 that they MUST spend on level 1 only feats: Luck of Heroes, Serpent Blood, Strong Soul, Wild Talent (for Psis or Sorcerors), etc.

I like that idea. I often find a lack of feats limiting, as do most of the other gamers at my table, so we often award an extra "background" feat.

Classes
Paladin: I am thinking of up-ing the power of this class as I find it very underpowered compared to others. Suggestions? I was thinking of giving him a domain.
Ranger: Would making the animal companion = level-3 instead of level/2 make this class grossly overpowered?

Paladin: You've never seen a Paladin with a HUGE charisma have you? Paladins with High Charismas are nearly immune to magic with such high saves (+4 to all saves is nice, and I've seen higher). Sure, they're not fighters, but they are cool. If you want to open them up, drop the multi-class restrictions on them (and monks)
Ranger: Um, oops, I've been using this ability wrong I always assumed it was -3 instead of /2, though I've not seen a ranger played above 4th level in 3.5, so no harm yet.

Feats
Metamagic feats do not force a full round action. Sorcerors/Bard still cannot take Quicken Spell
TWF gives no penalty for light weapon in off-hand, -2/-2 for one handed weapons
ITWF gives 1 extra off-hand attack AND eliminates penalty
GTWF gives number of attacks with off-hand equal to primary hand AND gives full Str bonus to off-hand
Improved Two Weapon Defense (with TWD and Dex 15 as pre-requisites) gives another +1 shield AC
Manyshot allows targetting of multiple enemies
Greater Manyshot reduces extra arrow penalty to -3 each
Quickdraw allows you to sheath your weapon as a free action as well as draw it
Wild Talent gives 2 PP AND 1 Level 1 Power OR 1 each of Level 0 and Level 1 spell slot and spell known (depending on Psi or Sorc). You will need to have this feat to be a Psionic Class or a Sorceror

So, Metamagic feats are even better for spontanious spell casters than before?
With those tweeks, TWF will see a HUGE increase in use. Perhaps making an additional feat that eliminates the -2/-2 accessable with a BAB of +4 or 8 or something like that.
Limit the arc on Manyshot, otherwise you'll have archers who can hit someone "Behind" them, otherwise not a huge issue.
Quickdraw, ok, what prevents someone from having a +5 Defender and a +5 Flaming sword, and swapping between the two of them when attacking vs when not attacking? Make a quick Sheath feat.
I can understand requiring Wild Talent for Psionics, if you feel that's a balancing factor, go for it, but I don't like it for the Sorceror.