Changing Druidic weapons : unbalanced ?

[Chacal]

I've always had a problem judging if a weapon could be usable by a druid.
I know I could use the list given in the PhB, and rule out everything that's not in it, but it doesn't make sense to me.
Why is the scimitar here, why not the bow ?
Why armor limitation is based on metal -no, wood -yes, but not weapons ?

If I were to preserve the flavor of the druid's oath, I would limit it to "weapons and armor made of something natural (i.e coming from the prime) which was alive". For instance wood, bones, fangs, leather ...

But I wonder if it would took out a restriction and if it would unbalance the class ?

So my questions are :
- do you think it would unbalance the class ?
- if so, what would you do to balance it again (besides not using this rule )
- do you have any ideas of cool "natural" (as per above definition) weapons, stats and rules ?



Chacal

 

[Nifft]

Metal Weapons: the designers painted themselves into a corner here. They have metal-based DRs which they can't restrict Druids from using without seriously harming the class.

Weapon Proficencies: IMHO, the best Druid weapon is the dire bear claw (or other big, strong Wild Shape), so it probably wouldn't be unbalanced to grant Druids access to any martial weapon, even greatswords -- since most smart ones wouldn't use many weapons at high level anyway.

Scimitar: in 2e, they had the sickle. In Baldur's Gate 2, the programmers didn't bother to include sickles, so Druids got scimitars. In 3.0e, they seem to have followed the lead of the game programmers (yes, this is fodder for Diaglo's sig ). In 3.5e, they get both, I think... basically, it seems to be an error that became cannon. However, it's clear that the designers don't think that having a few Martial weapons won't unbalance the Druid, since the Scimitar is one of the stronger Martial weapons.


If you want to restrict Druids to non-metal weapons, the real issues are:

1) Availability -- will they find MW Obsidian Spears as often as they find MW Steel Spears? I do try to mix up the items IMC, so that PCs find stuff made of interesting materials (based on where the weapon / armor came from).

2) Damage Reduction -- will you add Silverthorn arrows that are about as common as Alchemical Silver arrows? What will you do about Cold Iron? (Since Druids are kinda Fey friendly, and Cold Iron is really quite anti-Fey, perhaps have Darkwood affect Demons and all non-Fey who normally fear Cold Iron -- and give it the disadvantage of Cold Iron, that it's expensive to enhance.) Adamantine is a whole 'nother problem. Growing something that strong that's not Epic in some way breaks my disbelief.

3) New DR -- will you add some beasts that can only be hurt by, say, DR/stone weapons? That would favor the cool Dwarven Stoneaxe guy and the Obsidian Spear guy -- and it would make the Magic Stone spell suck so much less. Or DR/Bone for a Skinwalker (Doppleganger), or DR/teeth for a Candy Golem...

Anyway -- hope I've given you some perspective.

-- N

 

[Chacal]

Very interesting, Nifft. Thanks.

The availability is in itself a balance factor : they'd have to make the weapons themselves or find someone who can make them for them. MW would be harder to get for "natural" weapons. There are no shops of magic weapons IMC, so getting magic versions wouldn't be much harder than it is now. Only a little more.


I haven't used metal-based DR so far, but it is an interesting point. I will probably think about some equivalences.
I think I'd also follow your suggestion about having wood-based or stone-based DR.
It makes a good incentive to do some research about the monsters.
( Aside : I do not fear the golf-bag syndrome because my players usually prefer style over swiss-army-knife approach, and it's more difficult to commission three +1 weapons than one +3 weapon IMC.)


Chacal

 

[Tetsubo]

These are the weapon and armour rules I came up with for 3.0, I still use them:

Druids are not restricted to the weapons selection in the Players Handbook. The only restrictions as far as weapons are concerned are that they must be made from natural materials. Bone, horn, wood and stone. Bows are also allowed. Armour is restricted to light and medium and must also be made from natural materials. Though I am willing to entertain a greater selection than offered by the Players Handbook. Wooden items that have been enchanted by the ironwood spell are allowed.
The 6th level Ironwood spell now applies to all rigid organic materials. Example: bone, teeth, shell, hooves, horn, etc.

 

[Gideon]

To handle the DR rule you could add a spell like ironwood that would essentially convert their bone/stone/wood item into a cold iron/silver/adamantine weapon for DR purposes.

Further, metals are from the earth so would a wood a club with sharpened points made from cold iron really be un-order of the world-ish? As long as the weapon wasn't forged would it meet the natural requirements? Maybe. It's one of those DM decision things, at least to me.

 

[Evilhalfling]

In my campaign I allow druids to use longbows and shortbows - but not the composite versions. The simple bow seems an even more natural weapon than the sling. In pratice they tend to use bows at low levels and discard them when they reach mid or high levels as wildshape and spells become far more effective.
Nifft:
from the 1st ed players handbook - Druid weapons
club, dagger, dart, hammer, scimitar, sling, spear, staff

 

[Nifft]

Oh, one other thing I do. My world is high-magic (i.e. default D&D magic level), so spells like wood shape and stone shape are available, especially to Druids.

This means that it's just about as easy to "shape" a MW metal or wooden weapon as it is to forge a metal one. (I've even added metal shape, so that forge-guys can justify doing their thing better.)

So, no issues IMC about metal weapons being mechanically better than stone or wood ones. Unlike real life where metal weapons were just better, magic levels that playing field.

-- N

 

[Nifft]

Nifft:
from the 1st ed players handbook - Druid weapons
club, dagger, dart, hammer, scimitar, sling, spear, staff

Thanks, I seem to have misplaced my copy for about a decade!

-- N

 

[CrazyDrake]

as i understood it, the weapon restrictions were based primarilly on what the weapon resembles; a club is like a slam attack, a sickle is like a talon, a spear is like a spine, a scimitar is like a ...really big claw.

the scimitar is a stretch, but it makes sense mostly. as for the sling, i really think it was just added bc druids needed a ranged weapon, which isnt a great reason, but its better than my original justification for it...

 

[Nifft]

as for the sling, i really think it was just added bc druids needed a ranged weapon, which isnt a great reason, but its better than my original justification for it...

It's like a seagull dropping a clam on your head from 200 ft. -- totally natural.

-- N