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(+)Changing From a DC Ladder to a Success Ladder

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Are you familiar with FFG Star Wars?

Numerically, it handles things a lot differently than your system, but the idea of adding or subtracting dice is something that system uses.
I haven’t played it since the playtest, but I’m fairly familiar. Not a big fan of their dice system, but that’s more about all the “if, then” stuff that triggers off of die rolls, that IME creates a steeper curve before players are playing the game smoothly and without regular interruptions to try and grok the mechanics.

But the add and subtracting dice dynamic is solid, IMO.

especially at the lower ends, I like that teamwork can make results possible that wouldn’t otherwise be, by upgrading a no-rank check to a ranked check, or upgrading 1 rank to 2.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
@clearstream gave me an idea earlier that might solve some issues earlier, but I was at work…I think it related to having AC and DCs reduce the bonus the character is bringing to the action, which in this system would be a dice pool reduction.

Im not sure if it would work tbh, but it’s worth thinking about at least.
 

clearstream

Be just and fear not...
Supporter
@clearstream gave me an idea earlier that might solve some issues earlier, but I was at work…I think it related to having AC and DCs reduce the bonus the character is bringing to the action, which in this system would be a dice pool reduction.

Im not sure if it would work tbh, but it’s worth thinking about at least.
Typically, a dice pool system builds DC into the target number of successes. You've gone with a rubric so that option isn't available (and sliding the rubric could make it much harder to apply.) I feel drawn to the symmetry of resistance dice. So DC is given as #dRs. Some thoughts to what dRs could be
  • -d0-3 (could use -(d4-1))
  • -d0-2 (could use dFudge with + = 0, blank = -1, - = -2)
Alternatively, one might draw on advantage/disadvantage so that DC is a number of dice you must reroll, working down from highest.

Here is my background thinking. I take a step back and think about the features of dice resolution methods.
  • Number of cognitive steps (to really get into this, one could size the burden of each step)
  • Avatar input into success rate
  • Environment (including foes) input into success rate
  • Understanable probabilities
  • Pleasing feel
The PHB method has
  • 1) locate DC, 2) read d20 roll, 3) add modifiers, 4) compare with DC
  • -3 to +11 & advantage/disadvantage
  • -5 to -30 & advantage/disadvantage
  • each +/-1 is 5%
  • subjective; many attest to enjoying advantage/disadvantage
The method in the OP of my thread has
  • 1) locate DC, 2) Read d20 roll, 3) add modifiers, 4) compare with DC, 5) check d20's parity, 6) conceive a drawback
  • Rest as above
The method discussed in the body of my thread has
  • 1) locate DC, 2) Read d20 roll, 3) add modifiers, 4) subtract DC, 5) compare with rubric, 6) conceive a drawback
  • Rest as above
A d12 + d6s dice pool method has
  • 1) locate #dice, 2) read d12 + d6s, 3) compare with rubric, 4) conceive a drawback
  • +0-5 d6s
  • none
  • generally not understandable
  • subjective; many attest to enjoying throwing a bunch of dice (I know I do)
I believe for dice pools, obfuscated probabilities comes with the territory so let's ignore that. The expressive range of avatar inputs is narrow, but not nothing. Your concern for DCs speaks to an obvious gap that looks worth filling. Resistance dice or forced rerolls could fill it.
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Typically, a dice pool system builds DC into the target number of successes. You've gone with a rubric so that option isn't available (and sliding the rubric could make it much harder to apply.) I feel drawn to the symmetry of resistance dice. So DC is given as #dRs. Some thoughts to what dRs could be
  • d0-3 (could use d4-1)
  • d0-2 (could use dFudge with + = 0, blank = -1, - = -2)
Alternatively, one might draw on advantage/disadvantage so that DC is a number of dice you must reroll, working down from highest.

Here is my background thinking. I take a step back and think about the features of dice resolution methods.
  • Number of cognitive steps (to really get into this, one could size the burden of each step)
  • Avatar input into success rate
  • Environment (including foes) input into success rate
  • Understanable probabilities
  • Pleasing feel
The PHB method has
  • 1) locate DC, 2) read d20 roll, 3) add modifiers, 4) compare with DC
  • -3 to +11 & advantage/disadvantage
  • -5 to -30 & advantage/disadvantage
  • each +/-1 is 5%
  • subjective; many attest to enjoying advantage/disadvantage
The method in the OP of my thread has
  • 1) locate DC, 2) Read d20 roll, 3) add modifiers, 4) compare with DC, 5) check d20's parity, 6) conceive a drawback
  • Rest as above
The method discussed in the body of my thread has
  • 1) locate DC, 2) Read d20 roll, 3) add modifiers, 4) subtract DC, 5) compare with rubric, 6) conceive a drawback
  • Rest as above
A d12 + d6s dice pool method has
  • 1) locate #dice, 2) read d12 + d6s, 3) compare with rubric, 4) conceive a drawback
  • +0-5 d6s
  • none
  • generally not understandable
  • subjective; many attest to enjoying throwing a bunch of dice (I know I do)
I believe for dice pools, obfuscated probabilities comes with the territory so let's ignore that. The expressive range of avatar inputs is narrow, but not nothing. Your concern for DCs speaks to an obvious gap that looks worth filling. Resistance dice or forced rerolls could fill it.
That is a very helpful post. Thank you!

I’ll have to think on it when I’m more awake and less beat from a long day, but I think that forced rerolls could be interesting. Either a number of dice, or a “reroll 6s or 5s and 6s on the rank dice” type thing. Depending on how each impacts the probabilities.
 

clearstream

Be just and fear not...
Supporter
That is a very helpful post. Thank you!

I’ll have to think on it when I’m more awake and less beat from a long day, but I think that forced rerolls could be interesting. Either a number of dice, or a “reroll 6s or 5s and 6s on the rank dice” type thing. Depending on how each impacts the probabilities.
One way to assess the probabilities without hurting your brain is to set up a quick monte carlo simulation in excel. You can just create the die arrays you want using randbetween(1,12) and randbetween(1,6) and then create an if statement to flag ones satisfying the criteria you care about. Then dupe 100 times, and set up something to count flags. There's a few ways to do it.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
One way to assess the probabilities without hurting your brain is to set up a quick monte carlo simulation in excel. You can just create the die arrays you want using randbetween(1,12) and randbetween(1,6) and then create an if statement to flag ones satisfying the criteria you care about. Then dupe 100 times, and set up something to count flags. There's a few ways to do it.
I think anydice can do it as well, yeah. I just gotta get some desktop time.
 

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