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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mneme" data-source="post: 5091434" data-attributes="member: 59248">Char-op is a natural result of a system that both rewards it and has enough distinctions for Char-op to be, well, interesting.  It's not (obviously) Wizards or D&D's "fault" -- but all versions of D&D have had, to greater or lesser degrees, systems that rewarded optimization, and at this point, doing so is a choice.D&D4, in particular, is -designed- to be optimized.  The system is designed not only not to be broken with optimization, but with the idea that optimization will be part of play (to a greater or lesser extent, but still).  This idea is a modern concept (compare to the Hero System or GURPS or even D&D3, all of which tended to destablize the game when players optimized, but which all were systems that attracted optimization), and a useful one--games that both reward optimization and are designed such that optimization are functional (particularly if they can -also- function with lower values of optimization).  Of course, D&D4 still has some bugs in this regard, but Wizards have shown that they're actively trying to fix them, which is kinda neat.There are, of course, also systems that are antithetical to optimization -- where it's not good play, and isn't particularly interesting -- for example, Amber, Nobilis, or Over the Edge.  In those systems, the power of the GM is broad enough, and the system as a whole flat enough that while the system can create interesting characters, real optimization -- making an Amber character powerful enough to shrug off a huge wad of Bad Stuff, a Noble with an overwhelmingly powerful Gift, or an Everway character with a pointless Flaw or an trait that ammounts to "do anything: 4d6" neither presents an interesting challenge nor is likely to be allowed by a GM.By contrast, character creation in 4e (any version of D&D, really, but 4e the most conciously), character creation is all about synergy and tradeoffs -- that is, optimization.</blockquote>

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