Character Generation - Regional Benefits

[Halford]

Looks good to me.

 

[grislyeye]

Threw something up on the wiki.
The Feywild

Looks good, but I would note that Nature is sometimes used for knowledge checks and monster checks: not sure this gells with a nature bonus in the feywild only. Perhaps the bonus could apply to nature checks about the feywild and fey as well.

 

[Dunamin]

From what I hear, regional benefits work pretty differently in the newly released Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. I suggest we just keep to the current scheme, though - have benefits be so minor or circumstantial that they should have no more than marginal impact on an adventure.

 

[garyh]

From what I hear, regional benefits work pretty differently in the newly released Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. I suggest we just keep to the current scheme, though - have benefits be so minor or circumstantial that they should have no more than marginal impact on an adventure.

We did consider FR-level regional benefits, but with our settings ability to create new lands, it'd be harder to balance the more powerful FR-type benefits. Too much chance of power creep or brokeness, compared to rolling out all the benefits for a fully fleshed out world at once.

 

[Graf]

Yeah.
FR feats would be cool.... but it's just too much work. And somebody who picks a "no region" shouldn't feel like they're at a significant disadvantage.

 

[warderbrad]

Hi,
I have a question and this is not meant to step on anyone's toes or upset anyone just intended as a question.
I was reading the regional benefits section of the character creation, with a character concept in mind, and noticed that some region's benefit would apply fairly often, and some were nearly never at all. It seems a little unbalanced when compared to the FR regions and their benefits and how they are balanced to one another. I had wondered if the benefits were being looked at for revision, or if they were set that way for a reason (to discourage PCs from certain areas, or be sure that they were from there for a reason).
I in no way mean to call into question anyone's ideas on how they were set up, just giving feedback on what I felt may have been an accidental disparity.
In comparing the benefits nearly all areas have one benefit that is all the time, and a second one that is conditional of them being in their homeland. A few alter this pattern but for the most part it seems balanced, the most unbalanced I will compare below.

To give examples (and only noticed as I picked this region) the Kingdom of Jade is one that their regional benefit is not applicable often. Where compared to The Valley of Bone has a number of benefits the first of which apply all the time and the others are not hard to get to apply.

Kingdom of Jade: Regional Benefit

+1 on insight checks; individuals from the restrained culture of the Kingdom show very little emotion; a social response to fear that powerful emotions open the way to corruption by the shadow. While this bottling up of emotion doesn't seem to actually be particularly effective in resisting corruption non-members of their culture often find them excruciatingly difficult to read in social situations. They receive +2 on social bluff checks against individuals who are not from their region*.

(*)For the avoidance of doubt we reiterate that this bonus only applies to social situations. Uses of the bluff skill to Gain Combat Advantage or Create a Diversion to Hide (phb 183) do not receive the bonus.

Valley of Bone: Regional Benefit

+1 endurance checks, reflecting their resilience; The combination of respect and confidence they have in dealing with the unliving can be a potent tool... .they also receive a +2 bonus to monster knowledge checks involving undead and a +2 to diplomacy checks involving undead that they have correctly identified. These bonuses rise to +4 when dealing with undead that originate from the valley of bone (disposed as they are to interactions with mortals, they are more tolerant living who display the proper respect, often giving them an opportunity to speak when more typical undead would simply attack.)

Now I realize the first thing that someone will say is likely that I am looking to get a better deal, I cannot deny that. However there is a disparity in this comparison that is quite obvious. The Valley of Bone has 3 benefits the first applicable to all endurance checks, the others conditional. Where the Jade Kingdom only has a single bonus which is conditional and in PbP settings probably going to be handled by RP more than stat evaluation and "rolling".
I don't want to anger anyone, it is not my intent. I also don't want to come across as whiny, if I do I apologize in advance.

 

[Halford]

Sorry warderbrad, but I simply don't agree. The Kingdom of Jade benefit is far better in my book, social situations are going to be far more common than undead encounters in most adventures and +2 to bluff for them is amazing! The Valley of bone powers are far more situational, how often do you make diplomacy checks with the undead in an average game?

As for insight and bluff being handled by RP alone with no rolling I can tell you that that is not true of a single L4W game so far. Especially with the events, and common usage of skill challenges which require PCs to meet set DCs in order to score a success. In the three games I am involved in bluff has been used on at least two dozen occasions, and twice was a primary skill in a skill challenge, and there has been one undead battle where nobody bothered to roll monster knowledge.

If I feel one is clearly better - which I do - and you feel the other is then they are likely pretty well balanced.

Of course this may not be true for your character, but I don't really feel that is a problem, regional benefits give an incremental advantage to certain regional stereotypes partly so that the regions populance is more appropriately represented in the player pool.

 

[Atanatotatos]

Sorry warderbrad, but I simply don't agree. The Kingdom of Jade benefit is far better in my book, social situations are going to be far more common than undead encounters in most adventures and +2 to bluff for them is amazing! The Valley of bone powers are far more situational, how often do you make diplomacy checks with the undead in an average game?

As for insight and bluff being handled by RP alone with no rolling I can tell you that that is not true of a single L4W game so far. Especially with the events, and common usage of skill challenges which require PCs to meet set DCs in order to score a success. In the three games I am involved in bluff has been used on at least two dozen occasions, and twice was a primary skill in a skill challenge, and there has been one undead battle where nobody bothered to roll monster knowledge.

If I feel one is clearly better - which I do - and you feel the other is then they are likely pretty well balanced.

Of course this may not be true for your character, but I don't really feel that is a problem, regional benefits give an incremental advantage to certain regional stereotypes partly so that the regions populance is more appropriately represented in the player pool.

I posted exctly this in the other thread, though Halford said it better

 

[warderbrad]

Sorry warderbrad, but I simply don't agree. The Kingdom of Jade benefit is far better in my book, social situations are going to be far more common than undead encounters in most adventures and +2 to bluff for them is amazing! The Valley of bone powers are far more situational, how often do you make diplomacy checks with the undead in an average game?

As for insight and bluff being handled by RP alone with no rolling I can tell you that that is not true of a single L4W game so far. Especially with the events, and common usage of skill challenges which require PCs to meet set DCs in order to score a success. In the three games I am involved in bluff has been used on at least two dozen occasions, and twice was a primary skill in a skill challenge, and there has been one undead battle where nobody bothered to roll monster knowledge.

Uhm. To be honest the Kingdom of Jade benefit seems better to me. +1 to insight at all times, and +2 to bluff most of the times? Also, no, you do roll for social skill checks in Pbp... at least, in my experience, and in living4e too.

I may be misreading the entry but the note at the bottom states that the insight is not all the time but only during social encounters. Based on modules I have read from WOTC the intended array of encounters is supposed to be 1 skill challenge to 2 -3 combat encounters. Given that not all skill challenges will be social encounters (about 75% would be IMO) this makes the insight and bluff bonuses only applicable about 20% of the time.
I could be reading the entry wrong, and if so then my comments are all retracted, but if I am reading it wrong it is likely due to the wording of the note at the bottom seeming all inclusive of the entire bonus from the region. Would it be possible to have it say it is only referring to the Bluff bonus specifically?

 

[Atanatotatos]

While I don't agree completely with your statement, let's say that the benefit will apply 20% of the time.
How often do you think you will apply an endurance bonus (how many diseases are you planning on catching?) or a bonus to diplomacy checks dealing with undeads!!?? The knowldge bonus is nice, but really, it only applies to undead, and is, ultimately, minor.

Also, yes, I think the insight bonus is at all times.