character knowledge (bardic and otherwise)

[darkbard]

sort of a tricky subject here. how would you handle the following:

my players' group consists of the following: a half-orc barbarian/5ranger5, half-elf rogue1/sorcerer6/shadow adept3, halfling rogue/8dungeon delver2 and drow bard1/fighter1/cleric6 of eilistraee/sword dancer1. they have just embarked upon an underdark adventure and encountered a maurezhi demon (a new critter from city of the spider queen). the half-orc has scent as a feat (i've allowed this feat in my game for half-orcs and gnomes) and, though the fiend was invisible, could smell an odor of brimstone and death in the area. the characters had previously faced an outsider in their careers (an osyluth from dungeon of the fire opal) and the players wanted to know if there was any knowledge skill (bardic for the multi-classed cleric, or otherwise) or intelligence check they could have their characters make to recognize the brimstone smell as that associated with some sort of outsider and what, if any, awareness their characters would have of an outsider's attacks, weaknesses, etc.

the players pleaded bardic knowledge and knowledge (nature) for the barbarian/ranger, claiming he would know if it was something unnatural to the underdark environment. ultimately, i decided that since this was a demon, not a devil and since no character had knowledge (planes) or something similar, there was no check that could be made.

was i unreasonable? would you have handled the situation differently? if so, what kind of skill or ability check would you have implemented?

 

[Tsyr]

the players pleaded bardic knowledge and knowledge (nature) for the barbarian/ranger, claiming he would know if it was something unnatural to the underdark environment. ultimately, i decided that since this was a demon, not a devil and since no character had knowledge (planes) or something similar, there was no check that could be made.

was i unreasonable? would you have handled the situation differently? if so, what kind of skill or ability check would you have implemented?

Well, my take on it is that A) Bardic Knowledge is a great one for "Well, I don't have XXXX knowledge specificly, BUT...." and B) If one has enough knowledge of the situation at hand (For example, caves), he might not know what the smell meant exactly, but he very likely might know that the smell meant something was wrong.

 

[arwink]

I would have let Bardic Knowledge have a go, but any information they got would be sketchy to say the least. Fragments of legends, poems and other stories that give a hint.

A large portion of the answer depends on exactly how common demons, or any other monster type, are in your game. Personally, I figure my PC's who serve religions or certain types of magic orders devoted to chasing down evil are told a fair bit about the creatures they'll be fighting. If they want to know general information about demons (and we are talking very general information), they can usually find out without too much effort.

 

[National Acrobat]

Planar Knowledge

I am guessing that no one had any ranks in Knowledge: Planes? That would have been the appropriate skill in my campaign. That being said, I would have given them a real high DC on bardic knowledge just to know something obscure and out there, basically to let them know it was an outsider, but that would have been about the extent of it.

 

[Ravellion]

Re: Re: character knowledge (bardic and otherwise)

Well, my take on it is that A) Bardic Knowledge is a great one for "Well, I don't have XXXX knowledge specificly, BUT...." and B) If one has enough knowledge of the situation at hand (For example, caves), he might not know what the smell meant exactly, but he very likely might know that the smell meant something was wrong.

I would have to agree with Tsyr here. Knowledge natuer to know that the brimstone is out of place is something I would have allowed.

Rav

 

[darkbard]

i guess the point i was trying to make to the players was that no one had any knowledge appropriate skills [planes, etc.], the character with bard levels has only one level and no intelligence modifier [so the best possible bardic knowledge check would have been 21, far lower than any dc i would set in this case], and they already knew more from their characters' abilities [there was a lurking invisible creature that smelled of brimstone] than if they had absolutely no appropriate skills, feats, etc.

but assuming that they do think it's some sort of fiend [not an inappropriate assumption given the circumstances], what do they know about them? do they know about damage reduction, immunities, summoning ability, etc, etc?