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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bill Zebub" data-source="post: 8637743" data-attributes="member: 7031982">Well, would it make sense to reverse it? Dice rolls determine thoughts and decisions, but the success or failure of the resulting actions are up to the player?  I mean, it would be an interesting experiment, but bizarre. Or should we treat them both the same, and EVERYTHING is dice rolls? That would not be fun, imo. I suspect we all agree that at least most of the time the line is where I am saying it is, and the only disagreement is over some edge cases, such as the one in this thread. It seems to me the simplest solution is to treat it like the non-edge cases, which has no downsides unless one doesn’t trust players to make what the DM thinks is the “right” decision. But if somebody really wants to treat those edge cases as exceptions, with mechanics overruling agency, my hope is that it be codified in a rule, and not left to DM whim.</blockquote>