Charm Management

[moritheil]

Charm breaks when the victim sees allies threaten him, and there are penalties when the victim sees a threatening situation.

So what if you temporarily blind him or obscure his vision first? Should that eliminate penalties?

 

[Infiniti2000]

The charm doesn't require sight to allow for the bonus or the auto-break. Whether or not hearing an attack or having other trusted friend (your party) inform you about it is up to the DM. If the DM is lenient, that makes charm a little less powerful. The rest of the party could relatively easily 'frame' the charmer to break the spell (assuming no metagaming, however).

 

[moritheil]

The charm doesn't require sight to allow for the bonus or the auto-break. Whether or not hearing an attack or having other trusted friend (your party) inform you about it is up to the DM. If the DM is lenient, that makes charm a little less powerful. The rest of the party could relatively easily 'frame' the charmer to break the spell (assuming no metagaming, however).

I'm not sure I understand what specific situation you're talking about.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Non-charmed PC: Okay, Bob, close your eyes.
Bob (charmed): Okay.
Non-charmed PC (throws a rock at Bob): Oh, no, the succubus just threw a rock at you!
Bob (breaks charm): Why, that two-timing . . .

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

It depends. What exactly does the text save? Even if you're blinded, you can still be threatened. The "threaten" condition has more to do with the attacker than the defender.

 

[moritheil]

Ah, I see. I was thinking that maybe I could charm someone and throw up an illusion or smokescreen so that he wouldn't feel threatened by my allies pulling out their weapons and carving up his allies.

This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Ah, I see. I was thinking that maybe I could charm someone and throw up an illusion or smokescreen so that he wouldn't feel threatened by my allies pulling out their weapons and carving up his allies.

I don't think it has anything to do with attacking your victim's allies. You or your allies cannot attack the victim, but everyone else, including his close relatives, are all open season.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I don't think it has anything to do with attacking your victim's allies. You or your allies cannot attack the victim, but everyone else, including his close relatives, are all open season.

Heck, you could even get him to help kill his allies! Charm XXX works great in that regard. Nothing like having a Stone Giant on your side to help turn the tide of the battle.

Olaf the Stout

 

[moritheil]

Heck, you could even get him to help kill his allies! Charm XXX works great in that regard. Nothing like having a Stone Giant on your side to help turn the tide of the battle.

Olaf the Stout

I don't know about that. If he wouldn't normally do it, he gets a new saving throw.

It's fine if you're dealing with a bunch of creatures with no real bonds, but in the example of relatives mentioned above, that strikes me as risky.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Heck, you could even get him to help kill his allies! Charm XXX works great in that regard. Nothing like having a Stone Giant on your side to help turn the tide of the battle.

I don't agree with that interpretation. You still wouldn't attack your other friends. Although there's a stipulation about orders within the spell description, the major caveat of that is 'convince'. Please explain how you would convince your best buddy to kill his other best buddies, without starting with the trite "He's a doppelganger . . ." and also given the fact that your other buddies will immediately pipe up with a retaliation. IMO, at best such a tactic would cause you to stir in indecision for a round. In any case, DM's with such a loose ruling of charm XXX that makes it much more powerful should also adopt the above suggestion that nerfs it a great deal.