CharOp: Hybrid BM Ranger/Shaman, with dual MC's

[DracoSuave]

Dex.... heavy... beast... master?

Actually... let's look at where I see flaws in this, that are not related to the stats.

1)

Beast Master.

Number of powers with the Beast keyword: 0.

2)

Protector Spirit.

Number of powers that benefit from Protector Spirit: 0.


You've got two class features that have NOTHING to do with the actual build.

Time to go back to the drawing board.

Now, let's see... a two companion build... How... To... Do.... It....

First, ignore any advice about taking Dexterity. Dexterity + Beast Companion = WRONG.

You. Want. Strength.

Ignore any advice about Dexterity being good for Shamans. It's a support thing at best, and you can build -around- not having it.

1) I like Nimble Strike. A lot.
2) Believe it or not, Twin Strike is not helping you in the support role. Neither is Protector's Strike really synergizing with anything. Stalker's Strike will both be more supportive in terms of upping damage of your friends, AND synergizes with the beast companion. (edit: Watcher's Strike is better)
3) Using a bow means switching between bow and totem a LOT. Better just to use a Totemic Spear and get in melee, which Beast Masters actually want to do for the free flanking. You don't need to be adjacent to the enemy, as the long spear has reach.
4) Why twin-wield distance axes when you don't two-weapon melee?

So.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Irena, level 4
Human, Ranger|Shaman
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Companion Spirit (Hybrid): Stalker Spirit (Hybrid)
Hybrid Shaman: Hybrid Shaman Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Ranger Fighting Style
Ranger Fighting Style: Beast Mastery (Hybrid)
Beast Companion Type: Lizard
Background: Windrise Ports, Occupation - Artisan (Windrise Ports Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 18 Fort: 17 Reflex: 14 Will: 16
HP: 40 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Perception +10, Athletics +9, Stealth +6, Nature +10, Endurance +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +2, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, History +2, Insight +5, Intimidate +1, Religion +2, Streetwise +1, Thievery +1

FEATS
Human: Ghostwalker Style
Level 1: Battle-Scarred Veteran
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Armor Proficiency (Chainmail)

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Predator Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Watcher's Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Nimble Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Ironbreaker Claws
Hybrid daily 1: Driving the Quarry
Hybrid utility 2: Pack Alertness
Hybrid encounter 3: Encircle the Prey

ITEMS
Totemic Spear Longspear +1, Chainmail
RITUALS
Raise Beast Companion
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


Oh, and yeah, totally, Longtooth Shifter go.

 

[chorolus]

Getting a lot of negative feedback so far...but I guess that was to be expected, and I do appreciate everyone's suggestions.

Well, the goal was to get respectable ranged dps via Twin Strike (RBA's probaly won't ever come up in our group anyways), while aiming for as many crits/knocked prone effects as she can from range. With Twin Strike in her completed build, she basically has a 1/5 chance for one of the attacks crit per round -- 2 attacks with a chance to crit on a 19/20.

The pets initially were there simply as blockers and for a bit more control in the battlefield: the Ranger pet can perform OA's if anything tries to charge around it, Familiars can gain some pretty nifty abilities if you feat for them as well, and the goal was to have a healing Spirit...though I'm now aware that the Spirit Companion looses its OA-capability when you Hybridize unless you take the feature for it...that option is still available if we take the Hybrid PP however, but there are more useful Paragons out there by far. So with the current version of the character, statting for Dex, they are pretty much pointless, as you said. Her AC will be respectable enough to not get hit and therefor won't really need blockers in the first place, and she will may take the Harrowing Swarm style feats so that she can use ranged attacks in melee range so long as she herself isn't flanked/surrounded by more than one foe, which makes blocking pets really seem silly to keep around.

Now the original build is obviously flawed in numerous ways:

-Wis focus when her Spirit can't even perform healing actions that would take advantage of it.

-Limited, if any, real uses for Wis.

-Laughable damage/hit due to low Dex.

-Low durability due to low Dex.

-Literally useless in melee due to 10 Str.

-Cumbersome turns with so many warm bodies to move around the battlefield every time she takes action...well the Spirit companion isn't really a warm body...but I digress.

The current iteration of the character concept is a lot more rounded IMO. Handaxes, though they do have much less range than a bow, actually have respectable range with the Distance enchantment coupled with the Far Throwing feat.

I haven't posted her current build, I've tweaked it a bit, so she is now a Dex/Wis focus, with just enough Str/Con to get her required feats. And currently it is working well so far, but I agree that there are a lot of things about the build that still bear reviewing. Hence the idea to completely drop the Shaman side of things, as well as the Beasmaster Hybrid feature, for something that would better synergize with her ranged Twin Striker-y style. I haven't had time to really review the classes again yet, but I'm thinking something with leader/heal support would work the best, as her damage-dealing is actually not so bad as-is.

I would post a bit more, but time to go to work--whee.

 

[jbear]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news again but a Tempest Fighter is limited to using light blades, so hand axe does not receive the bonus. Also the bonus only applies to melee and close weapon attacks when weilding two weapons. Sp it does not apply to your ranged twinstrike attacks.

Tempest Fighter is Melee. Sorry. But that doesn't take away from how awesome they can be. Have a look at my hybrid fighter/ranger. His damage potential is massive. And he is a very good defender as well, with a very shifty mark. yes he shifts close instead of shifting away. Ranged enemies are going to get hit once they are marked, no matter what they do. Two enemies? Dual Strike. One enemy? Twin Strike. Want to kill someone really fast? Oath of Emnity, Off Hand Strike, Rain of Blows combo. All with double d20 rolls. If you can't roll a 20 with 8 rolls, well... two rounds of double d20 bliss.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 10, Dex 15, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10.

AC: 28 Fort: 24 Reflex: 23 Will: 18
HP: 85 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 21
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Stealth +14, Endurance +11, Athletics +15, Religion +9
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +7, Heal +7, History +4, Insight +7, Intimidate +7, Nature +7, Perception +7, Streetwise +5, Thievery +9
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 4: Mobile Challenge
Level 6: Midnight Blade Student
Level 8: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 11: Two-Weapon Opening
POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Dual Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Off-Hand Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Skirmishing Stance
Hybrid utility 2: Pass Forward
Hybrid encounter 3: Rain of Blows
Hybrid daily 5: Dervish's Challenge
Hybrid utility 6: Weave Through the Fray
Hybrid encounter 7: Opportunist's Rend
Hybrid daily 9: Fighter's Recovery
Hybrid utility 10: Resume the Hunt
ITEMS
Horn Tusk Earthhide Armor +3, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Talon Amulet +1, Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3), Giantkind Gloves (heroic tier), Magic Short sword +3 (2)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

But seriously, have you considered ranger/seeker hybrid. It would fit very well with the axe throwing. Dex/Wis synergy all the way. Be an ELF! Striker/controller. There are many ways to support the team. Seeker is a bit limited to date. I'm sure it will only get better as options open up over time with new material.

 

[chorolus]

Tempest Fighters are limited to Light Blades? The Character Builder didn't seem to care that the character I created was using axes...

The example build I made that was a Tempest Fighter Hybrid was a melee focus btw, ranged was just an afterthought with that one. I am looking at Seekers currently though, but to be honest, I just started a second job...so yeah...there goes my free time, lol. I'll have to work on furthering the character concept as I get around to it. =[

 

[On Puget Sound]

It is worth pointing out that if enemies stay prone for their turn, waiting for her to take her next turn first, they will not provoke OA's when they stand. However this will effectively keep them out of combat for twice the amount of time per crit...so whether or not the GM wants to allow OA's by standing ASAP or waiting an extra round before standing up again is still a good bonus either way.

Standing up does not provoke OAs.

 

[chorolus]

Standing up does not provoke OAs.

With the Reaving Axe Slayer feat, it does. The feat causes the effect.

 

[jbear]

It's tied to one specific encounter power right? So 2 feat investment for a 1/combat pretty cool effect. I guess you have to decide if the encounter power itself is worth it as well.

I'm sure the CB would register the hand axes, but I doubt it would apply the tempest fighter dmg bonus. If it has, it's an error. And certainly at range, it shouldn't be adding the bonus.

But is the DM pretty chilled out about things? I mean, seriously, hand axes are inferior to short swords. So your wife is kind of taking an inferior option in order to fit an idea she has in her head. Which is cool. Maybe your DM could let you refluff hand axes into a lighter butchers cleaver version. Same stats but counts as light blades. Or refluff short swords to look like axes, even better.

Is your wife really set on being a ranged character that uses axes or would you like some suggestions as to other 'support characters' that have some nifty features and synergies. Check out a Runepriest Fighter. Longtooth shifter would be perfect for that combo. And they are great defenders, very decent leaders (not so much as healers, but definitely in so far as give your team boost. The AC is decent as you get Scale Armour without having to spend any feats at all, and the use of a shield! That is a serious bonus! Plus the higher your wisdom the harder you hit when they miss you. Your mark is decent as you get combat challenge free, so still no shifting away from you. They are probably good to go for the use of a polearm, hafted defense, polearm flanker and at lvl 11 they become pure win with polearm gambit.

And the Runepriests at wills is one of the best of any leader: dish out vulnerability or damage reduction as the case may be. If you'd like a look I'll post a build.

 

[chorolus]

The Reaving Axe knock-down feature does seem like an oddball, I know. Every other style-type feat states exactly what Powers you can use to take advantage of the feats features...but the feat description of the Reaving Axe-lineup doesn't actually tie the effect to a specific power(s) like most of the other style-feats do, it simply states that when you attack and crit, the enemy is knocked prone etc. Unless they messed up on the wording there, or I'm having another interpretation brainfart...which is quite possible given my track record in this forum so far...than that means the knockdown bonus to the feat isn't limited to any specific Powers?

So far as my wife's concept for her character, she really likes the ranged combat focus but isn't a big fan of bows...and would like to be able to heal/support/buff/etc others in the group, while dealing respectable damage but not being a 'stiker-tier' damage focus. The axe-crit-knockdown thing is fulfilling the goal of adding a bit of control, however finicky, while injecting a few OA situations for others in the group...plus adds some 'coolness' factor that she really likes too, lol. If another class combo can pull off a similar/better slot in our group, we will definitely consider and discuss it.

So yeah, not exactly determined to stick with the current character concept no matter what, but she does like it so far. And though I know it sounds sub-optimal by a long shot on paper, in practice it's actually been working out quite well so far. Granted our recent adventures have been limited to mid-range combat anyways (caves/dungeon type areas)...so she hasn't really had a chance to regret not having more range if that makes sense.

Oh, and our GM is one who isn't big on house-ruled stuff typically...so I don't think reskinning more versatile/powerful weapons would be the way to go, but we are open to ideas/suggestions on other legal options. I've discussed using a Farbond-enchanted Khopesh instead of handaxes, but long story short, she wants a pair of identical weapons so she doesn't have to keep track of different dice/effects for each weapon...so unless we find a way to work in the Two-Weapon Fighting ranger feature thing, then we're stuck with off-hand weapons more or less. And with Hybrids, there are typically a lot of more useful features to get than the Two-Weapon Fighting dealio.

 

[jbear]

Would a Warlord/Ranger based on STR using Throw and Stab instead of twin strike be a better combo, perhaps, considering what your wife wants to achieve? Plus she would be able to dish out attacks to the rest of the crew. Your going to need either INT or CHA, forgetting DEX. So a Genasi might be ok. An Air genasi! Ohhhh, flying! Or a Dragonborn. She'll need to invest a feat in armour if she were to go for CHA instead of INT. A hand axe in one hand, a war axe in the other (is it war axe the superior one handed axe?). Pretty cool.

 

[chorolus]

Would a Warlord/Ranger based on STR using Throw and Stab instead of twin strike be a better combo, perhaps, considering what your wife wants to achieve? Plus she would be able to dish out attacks to the rest of the crew. Your going to need either INT or CHA, forgetting DEX. So a Genasi might be ok. An Air genasi! Ohhhh, flying! Or a Dragonborn. She'll need to invest a feat in armour if she were to go for CHA instead of INT. A hand axe in one hand, a war axe in the other (is it war axe the superior one handed axe?). Pretty cool.

That actually sounds like an intriguing character combo. I'll tinker around with the idea in the Character Builder when I get a chance. Working a few 12-hour shifts this week, so yeah...ew...