Cheating cheaters
- Thread starter Obryn
- Start date
catsclaw227
First Post
We must game and socialize with different types of people then. I would be surprised if someone cheated in our group, not the other way around.As for all these people who seem to think that Thou shalt not cheat at RPG's was the 11th commandment , honestly I think your hypocrits. What I have learned about people and games is that everyone cheats, I do, Others Do, My Grandmother Did, and you know what we survived, games were still games, smiles where had, bastardry is okay every now and then, its just a game forsakes. All you people who are like, if everyone cheats all the time what kind of thing would that be , it would not be a game at all. Your looking at a corner case, No one is ever gonna cheat all the time (You would need some kind of cheating machine) honestly lots and lots of games get by just fine with cheaters (Just look at a major league baseball ). And I know some smart ass is gonna come on and say that I can't say this , and I don't have sufficient sample, and maybe that's how things roll where I come from but there is a bigger and better way where they come from, but the moral of the story is , Which do you find easier to believe in, that everyone (or close enough) cheats(Eveer) or that most do not , I'm putting my money on the cheaters.
Seriously, I haven't seen any cheating at my table in a very long time, and it's a reflection of the type of people I choose to surround myself with.
I prefer to have friends and game-pals that are honest with each other and can be open about discussing these kinds of things. We aren't saints, for sure, but we are honest.
Wyrmshadows
Explorer
You cheat, you get called on it.
I would warn once privately that if I catch her cheating again she's no longer welcome at my table. She can take her 'playstyle'
somewhere else. I am not going to bend over backwards to accomodate someone who has a problem with following a simple instruction....don't cheat. I'm also not going to create an elaborate in game situation to prove to her that cheating is wrong. If she cannot grasp the basics of social/game etiquette she needs to find another hobby or play with gamers as dysfunctional as she is.
What is she, 9 years old? Did her mommy and daddy not model proper social contracts/etiquette? Is she harboring low self esteem? Is it really right to call cheating wrong? Maybe lying to you and everyone else at the table is just another playstyle and we don't want to be intolerant and call anything wrongbadfun....heavens no.
I call BS on all that psychobabble/politically correct/relativistic nonsense. We all know that cheating is wrong. Even when we do it, if it in any way impacts others adversly, it is wrong. Lying in a game when everyone else is honest is negative impact by betraying the social contract of the hobby.
I work as a counselor and I find that the worst thing you can do is coddle someone's misbehavior. When I work with someone (in a mental health facility) the first thing that needs to be established is what is and what is not appropriate behavior and then clearly note the consequences for inappropriate behavior. After 8yrs of doing this work, I have found that without the threat of serious consequences there is unlikely to be any change of non-pathological (ie. non mental illness related) behavior.
I haven't had someone cheat at my table since me and my players were kids, when some of us actually believed that you could win a RPing game. What benefit is there to actually lying to everyone at the table when they are all taking the same risks and respecting the game, the DM, and each other by playing by the rules?
If I cheat on an single player PC or XBOX 360 game it is only because I want to win. I want to complete the game and I don't want to be unable to get past a given level. I would cheat because the satisfaction of seeing it out to the end in order to see how the story plays out and I may have paid $50 for the game. Honestly, I just want to get through it and once I do I'll trade it in or sell it on ebay. However, it is a really crappy move to cheat on a multiplayer game because others are involved and there is an unspoken understanding amongst individuals older than 12yrs old (at the latest) that cheating is a no-no.
IMO if you allow cheating, just close the books, put away the dice and everyone sit in a circle and just tell each other stories about how cool each others imaginary personas are. Ultimately, without dice, rules, and the random element RPing games are just Grown Up Story Time.
*I apologize if some of this post sounds snarky. I just have a pet peeve about RPing game cheaters as well as any excuse making for them.*
Wyrmshadows
I would warn once privately that if I catch her cheating again she's no longer welcome at my table. She can take her 'playstyle'
somewhere else. I am not going to bend over backwards to accomodate someone who has a problem with following a simple instruction....don't cheat. I'm also not going to create an elaborate in game situation to prove to her that cheating is wrong. If she cannot grasp the basics of social/game etiquette she needs to find another hobby or play with gamers as dysfunctional as she is.What is she, 9 years old? Did her mommy and daddy not model proper social contracts/etiquette? Is she harboring low self esteem? Is it really right to call cheating wrong? Maybe lying to you and everyone else at the table is just another playstyle and we don't want to be intolerant and call anything wrongbadfun....heavens no.
I call BS on all that psychobabble/politically correct/relativistic nonsense. We all know that cheating is wrong. Even when we do it, if it in any way impacts others adversly, it is wrong. Lying in a game when everyone else is honest is negative impact by betraying the social contract of the hobby.
I work as a counselor and I find that the worst thing you can do is coddle someone's misbehavior. When I work with someone (in a mental health facility) the first thing that needs to be established is what is and what is not appropriate behavior and then clearly note the consequences for inappropriate behavior. After 8yrs of doing this work, I have found that without the threat of serious consequences there is unlikely to be any change of non-pathological (ie. non mental illness related) behavior.
I haven't had someone cheat at my table since me and my players were kids, when some of us actually believed that you could win a RPing game. What benefit is there to actually lying to everyone at the table when they are all taking the same risks and respecting the game, the DM, and each other by playing by the rules?
If I cheat on an single player PC or XBOX 360 game it is only because I want to win. I want to complete the game and I don't want to be unable to get past a given level. I would cheat because the satisfaction of seeing it out to the end in order to see how the story plays out and I may have paid $50 for the game. Honestly, I just want to get through it and once I do I'll trade it in or sell it on ebay. However, it is a really crappy move to cheat on a multiplayer game because others are involved and there is an unspoken understanding amongst individuals older than 12yrs old (at the latest) that cheating is a no-no.
IMO if you allow cheating, just close the books, put away the dice and everyone sit in a circle and just tell each other stories about how cool each others imaginary personas are. Ultimately, without dice, rules, and the random element RPing games are just Grown Up Story Time.
*I apologize if some of this post sounds snarky. I just have a pet peeve about RPing game cheaters as well as any excuse making for them.*
Wyrmshadows
Last edited:
I think you're wrong.According to House, everyone lies!
And that's why House is Chaotic Evil.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=166771
Fifth Element
Legend
Snarky? Not really. Condescending and judgmental? Yep.
This is a game, people. Any comments about "if she cheats at D&D, she'll never learn about life" are as much "psychobabble" as jmucchiello's comments. There are no real "risks" here. It's a game. Imaginary success and imaginary failure. That's it. What's the big deal?
Have your own fun. Don't tell others how to have theirs.
Arashi Ravenblade
First Post
Ive had to cheat cheaters. Sounds like a good idea having your buddies watch out for her.
Also I would recommend making the monsters tougher for the party, or so it would seem. Really whenever she cheats on a dice roll and you know it didnt hit, just dont apply damage. She'll never know.
Also I would recommend making the monsters tougher for the party, or so it would seem. Really whenever she cheats on a dice roll and you know it didnt hit, just dont apply damage. She'll never know.
Wyrmshadows
Explorer
That's what having a strong opinion is these days. Just like cheating is an acceptable playstyle. Because we all know that all points of view are equally valid. We could get into the endless loop of:
"Well you can't say that a cheater's playstyle is invalid because all points of view are equally valid. If you say otherwise you are being judgmental"
"If all points of view are equally valid then my point of view that cheaters should be bounced from the game is valid. If you say otherwise you are being judgmental"
GAME OVER
Another's point of view only ever has as much credibility as you subjectively grant it. We are always making judgments. So the mantra of 'don't be judgmental' is really saying 'don't be discerning, don't filter, allow every point of view equal weight.' This is a recipe for madness.
Don't create a straw man and then knock it down. I said no such thing. The fact is that most people's behaviors only change when there is a consequence for misbahavior.
I'd like to see folks who play poker act as if "its just a game, let her cheat if she is having fun." That attitude doesn't even exist among friends who get together to play Trivial Pursuit or Monopoly unless they've all gotten so drunk that they no longer care about the rules (which I have seen happen). No one enjoys playing with cheaters and most people (adults anyway) would be incredulous that someone is going to cheat regularly at any social game.
That's a weak argument. I can ask the same thing from a different angle. "If it is only a game and it doesn't matter, with no real risk, rewards or consequences then why go out of your way to cheat?"
The answer is that of course there are rewards to RPing games. The rewards are psychological and as real for those involved as for those involved in any activity where there is an element of risk (randomness, loss of a valued character, in-game consequences for action or inaction, etc.) Sports, board games, anything we do socially that doesn't involve actual risk to life and limb as part of the activity and whose payoff is ultimately psychological matters to those involved. If it didn't, they wouldn't be involved in the activity.
Telling the poste of the OP not to tolerate cheating is not telling someone how to have fun. The OP wanted to know how to deal with a cheater and I told him how I would handle it and pointed out the fact that behavior doesn't change without the threat of consequences ie. you cheat, you don't play.
Just the way it is.
Wyrmshadows
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Aluvial
Explorer
From Kevin Cook's Dice thread....
http://www.dicecollector.com/D20_OPAQUE_ROUNDED_SOLID_HUGE_3.jpg
BIG DICE = NO CHEATING
Aluvial
http://www.dicecollector.com/D20_OPAQUE_ROUNDED_SOLID_HUGE_3.jpg
BIG DICE = NO CHEATING
Aluvial
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
OK, let me ask this: what if someone in your group was cheating, perhaps blatantly so? What if I sat at your table and no matter what was rolled on a d20, obviously and out in the open, I called it a 20 (or simply any number that meant success)? No doubts, no equivocation, just flat-out cheating. Let's also assume I was a pleasant enough guy, brought snacks, cleaned up afterward, was polite, bathed, and otherwise helpful. But still, I would tell you and the others a bald-faced lie every single time I rolled a die. What then? Let's even say I didn't do it every single time, maybe once a session or so. How do you handle it? I'm not arguing, really, I'm genuinely curious.
