D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Mannahnin]

I don't mind my PC being James Bond, I don't want them to be The Hulk. There's a pretty clear distinction between action movie logic and superhero movie logic to me.

I think we can easily agree that there's a huge spectrum between Bond and The Hulk.

Also, why do you keep bringing superheroes into it? Is it just because of their current place in the pop culture zeitgeist? Why not reference classical mythology, legend, or folklore, all of which frequently have superhuman heroes who aren't wizards?

 

[Oofta]

If you believe this and are content with it, what's your objection to them beating Olympic long jumpers, while wearing armor?

There's a line. A fighter jumping 60 feet or more is literally going too far.

Besides, that's not what people really asking for.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think first avenger did a good job at looking human max... when he held a helicopter I kinda was like "really" and when he went toe to toe with thanos I was like "when did he get that super of str again?"

The Thanos thing I think might have been an unused plot point. I've heard some people theorize that him coming into contact with the gauntlet allowed him to attempt a contest of wills for control of the stones and if there's one thing we know about Steve is that he can do that all day.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think we can easily agree that there's a huge spectrum between Bond and The Hulk.

Also, why do you keep bringing superheroes into it? Is it just because of their current place in the pop culture zeitgeist? Why not reference classical mythology, legend, or folklore, all of which frequently have superhuman heroes who aren't wizards?

There's starting to be the thing some D&D players have a one-sided rivalry with like anime, so they see the comparison is diminishing the argument despite the people trying to mock jut think that's extra awesome.

 

[Oofta]

I think we can easily agree that there's a huge spectrum between Bond and The Hulk.

Also, why do you keep bringing superheroes into it? Is it just because of their current place in the pop culture zeitgeist? Why not reference classical mythology, legend, or folklore, all of which frequently have superhuman heroes who aren't wizards?

Superheroes are just modern interpretations of mythic level heroes like Hercules. Is Achilles really that much different from Luke Cage?

 

[Cadence]

Do things like grit, luck, and panache in PF break away from classic martial too much? Or are they just too meta in some cases? Rage? Qi? They don't feel that different to me than super high hit point totals, but we bought in to that long ago.

 

[HammerMan]

4e had a power like this (at 1st level), the name escapes me. A very vocal contingent were not happy!

all the daily powers either had an effect or miss 1/2 damage. however that was based on a feat for paragon that let you add an off stat to damage on ALL misses.

 

[Mannahnin]

There's a line. A fighter jumping 60 feet or more is literally going too far.

Besides, that's not what people really asking for.

It's just an example. If you already, personally, conceptualize the deeds of high-level fighters under the current rules as superhuman, than why are those superhuman deeds ok, but some other prospective ones (let's say 40 or 50 feet, rather than 60, maybe?) out of bounds?

I know this may be a "I know it when I see it" subjective judgement, but I'm just noticing an apparent conflict between what you said about high level fighters a couple of comments ago and your general stance about martial characters needing to be bounded by real world or action movie physics.

For my part, when 3.x forbade Sneak Attack from working on Undead, Golems, Ooze and so forth, I acknowledged and agreed with the logic, but then in play I saw that it was less fun. 5E allowing it to work on them at first strained my disbelief, but in practice I find that I can fluff-justify it sufficiently to be happy with it, especially since it makes the game more fun.

I think the same sort of exercise is certainly possible when it comes to conceptualizing high level martial characters as more like CuChulainn or Sir Kay or a Bogatyr, and less like James Bond.

If I want a game where they're more like James Bond, and mages simply outclass them or have OTHER setting-specific restrictions and limitations which wouldn't fly in D&D, there are other systems I can play.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Do things like grit, luck, and panache in PF break away from classic martial too much? Or are they just too meta in some cases? Rage? Qi? They don't feel that different to me than super high hit point totals, but we bought in to that long ago.

There's all pretty awesome.

Except Qi, which is questionable for reasons besides letting martials be interesting.

 

[Cadence]

Superheroes are just modern interpretations of mythic level heroes like Hercules. Is Achilles really that much different from Luke Cage?

Steel-like skin for Achilles was magic though, right? And Luke is great, but he's no Thor. Or 616 Hercules.

The mundane martial would be more like Odysseus, right.