City State of the Invincible Overlord -- Is it really that good?

[rogueattorney]

the old box set

The old boxed set is neither related to the new product, nor the original 70's product. It was a completely different product, designed by a completely different people, with a familiar name plunked on the box. So, if you didn't like the 1980's boxed set, that shouldn't have anything to do with whether you like the new version.

Personally, as someone who doesn't DM 3e, I haven't found a pressing need to get the new book. I have the original CSIO and Wraith Overlord, and there would be a lot of overlap with the new book and not enough new material.

Now, the Wilderlands boxed set on the otherhand... That looks like it's going to be a spectacular. If JG/Necro do the same quality job, I'll HAVE to get that, because 1. I don't have all the old stuff, 2. Getting all the old stuff would cost a heck of a lot more than getting the box, and 3. all the old stuff is spread out over nearly a dozen products, and having it all in one box would be really nice.

R.A.

 

[Nisarg]

The old boxed set is neither related to the new product, nor the original 70's product. It was a completely different product, designed by a completely different people, with a familiar name plunked on the box. So, if you didn't like the 1980's boxed set, that shouldn't have anything to do with whether you like the new version.

Really?

I didn't realize that. How completely different do you mean?

In any case, I may have spoken too soon in that case, and may have to take a look at the new City-State book, just to see if there's stuff I can use in my current "lawful evil urban setting" campaign.

Nisarg

 

[Krieg]

Just go and pick up City State, if there is only one product out there tailor made for C&C this is it...you won't be disapointed.

Seriously.

Ummmm ... okay.

(wtf?)

ROFLMAO

I think that is the standard reaction to Nisarq.

 

[rogueattorney]

I didn't realize that. How completely different do you mean?

I'm not exagerating at all to say that the only similarity between the 1987 Mayfair boxed set and the 1970's/2004 JG CSIO is the name. That's it. It was completely a case of using an old name to market a new product.

R.A.

 

[Arnwyn]

Does anyone out there own this baby? Is it really this good?

Yes, I own it. Yes, I like it very much.

(And, as an aside, I also use Port Blacksand IMC. Unlike Nisarg, I'm not up with any such mutual exclusivity.)

I think that is the standard reaction to Nisarq.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Really?

I didn't realize that. How completely different do you mean?

Completely different as in they are pretty much unrelated except for the name. They have about as much resemblance to each other as, say, Waterdeep has to Greyhawk has to Bluffside.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Completely different as in they are pretty much unrelated except for the name. They have about as much resemblance to each other as, say, Waterdeep has to Greyhawk has to Bluffside.

That sums it up in a nutshell. I think that there was one location that had the same name between the two settings.

And the Mayfair Games one was an enormous disappointment if you liked the original. I gave mine away. The city looked clean! The streets were broad and straight! There were kittens and puppy dogs playing together, rainbows and butterflies man, rainbows and butterflies!

Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit there, but that is what it felt like. I hated it.

The Auld Grump

 

[Melan]

Really?
I didn't realize that. How completely different do you mean?

Completely completely different. The Mayfair Games version is a dull, generic place named Briarwood... which Dragon Magazine described as a "city planner's daydream come true". Whereas the original JG City State is a place of twisting alleyways where you might get mugged by a band of werevolves, receive a sexual offer from a mind flayer (yeah, I rolled it up on the tables ), or get insulted and harrassed by the city guards - just because they can do that. The real City State is ruled by a military dictator who uses an extensive secret police to eliminate rivals and find insurgents. There are several faiths, including good, neutral and evil deities, who openly practice their religion. You can buy slaves right off the market, and most establishments possess a few to aid their customers.

Regarding the city's jumbled and random nature, it works well in practice. Once the players are "in there", it is extremely easy to create connections between the various elements, shops and NPCs. This design, while most likely not intentional, is IMHO superior to pre-determined plots. There are so many adventure hooks in there that you couldn't fit that many connections into the book, anyway...

Regarding "techno-fantasy", the original book had some of this (walkie-talkies in a dungeon, EMIG in Thunderhold, etc.), but it was downplayed in the new edition. To its detriment, I would add. Also, I personally would have omitted the "Wraith Overlord" section, as I find it uninspired compared to the City State itself.

But, all in all, it is a great book, both in its original and new incarnation. And avoid the Mayfair edition like the plague.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Completely completely different. The Mayfair Games version is a dull, generic place named Briarwood... which Dragon Magazine described as a "city planner's daydream come true". Whereas the original JG City State is a place of twisting alleyways where you might get mugged by a band of werevolves, receive a sexual offer from a mind flayer (yeah, I rolled it up on the tables ), or get insulted and harrassed by the city guards - just because they can do that. The real City State is ruled by a military dictator who uses an extensive secret police to eliminate rivals and find insurgents. There are several faiths, including good, neutral and evil deities, who openly practice their religion. You can buy slaves right off the market, and most establishments possess a few to aid their customers.

Regarding the city's jumbled and random nature, it works well in practice. Once the players are "in there", it is extremely easy to create connections between the various elements, shops and NPCs. This design, while most likely not intentional, is IMHO superior to pre-determined plots. There are so many adventure hooks in there that you couldn't fit that many connections into the book, anyway...

Regarding "techno-fantasy", the original book had some of this (walkie-talkies in a dungeon, EMIG in Thunderhold, etc.), but it was downplayed in the new edition. To its detriment, I would add. Also, I personally would have omitted the "Wraith Overlord" section, as I find it uninspired compared to the City State itself.

But, all in all, it is a great book, both in its original and new incarnation. And avoid the Mayfair edition like the plague.

Wow, you guys make me want to run this! What levels is it appropriate for?

 

[Melan]

Gentlegamer-
as a city environment, it is in theory appropriate for all levels. In practice, I would recommend it for mid level PCs (4th to 8th). Some possible random encounters are beyond the capabilities of startup characters, and the dungeons can be positively deadly. If you have players who are into roguish ventures, however (like the exploits of Ffahrd and the Gray Mouser), they will love the City State. It is a big playground for sneaky types.