City State Of The Invincible Overlord suitable for Thronehold/Eberron?

Errant

First Post
I'm thinking about running some adventures around the former Five Nations capital of Thronehold & was wondering whether the City State Of The Invincible Overlord might be viable for a conversion, but I've never seen the original or inside the latest version.

I'm thinking Thronehold was a mid-sized city at best while it was the capital & is probably now largely abandoned.

Anyone know how big the City' is supposed to be?
 

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Well, the City State has 80,000 inhabitants, thereof 20,000 able-bodied.

One difficulty that I see with using the City State in Eberron is the power level of NPCs. In Eberron, NPCs should have a relatively low level, with 6th level being very powerful (although this principle has been broken in some recent publications, as I heard). NPCs in the City State are all powerful, with 6th level being an average. This means lots of conversion work.
 

I'm quite happy adjusting NPC levels as required, so listed power levels aren't much of an issue. I'm primarily wondering about the city size and characteristics.

I'm sure there wouldn't be 80,000 pop in Thronehold now, but going back to when it was the capital of the Five Nations & (maybe) a centre for trade, that might have been its peak. Lots of empty, run down buildings (with who knows what squatters) wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Is it inland, coastal, on a river? Walled?

Does it have a palace/citadel or some other residence suitable for the ruler of the Five Nations?

Are the mapped city surroundings incompatible with a smallish island setting?

That kind of thing.

I suppose I'm primarily interested in what the map looks like. The fact that there are detailed locations & NPCs within the city is just cream.
 

Havent read city state, so I don't know what the split is on 80,000-20,000 able bodied.

20,000 would qualify as a large city. Throneport is a small city. You can of course choose to double the population since the war ended. As a "free city" is probably a good choice for bitter veterans.

As for the level thing.. Eberron NPCs being 6th level and under is a myth thats been circulating for some time, and I'm not sure from where. The official Eberron Demographics Dragonshard tells you how to alter the DMG charts to find out NPC levels.

An Eberron small city is a +4 modifier instead of a +6 (roll twice). Which means on average, a small city can have an 7th level rogue, 7th level fighter, 5th level cleric, 5th level wizard, 11th level warrior, 11th level adept, 11th level magewright, 11th level expert, 9th level aristocrat and a 14th level commoners

as opposed to

a non-Eberron small city which on average has TWO of each with these level difference. 10th level fighter and rogue, 9th level cleric, 8th level wizard, 11th level warrior, 9th level adept, 13th level expert, 8th level aristocrat and 16th level commoner.

Also, Eberron takes into account the higher-level wizards in Aundair, the higher level fighters in Karnnath, etc.

As you can see, the highest levels of the classes arent that different (regular d&d NPCs are 2-4 levels higher in small cities, up to 6 levels higher in a metropolis.).To offset this a little, Eberron has NPCs with NPC classes of higher levels.

The main difference is the AMOUNT of high level characters. As the regular d&d charts provide double the number of NPCs with class that Eberron does.

So far, the Eberron books have NOT violated this as much as people think they have. The 10th-12th level NPCs with PC classes in the books are perfectly acceptable.

The problem only comes if the number of these NPCs continues to grow at some ridiculous pace. In official Eberron products, it likely won't. In personal campaigns, the DM just needs to account for the named NPCs ...if he plans to use them.

But the important people in town are STILL going to be mid-level, so if any module you run uses the DMG charts for finding out levels, only the highest level characters will be too powerful for Eberron (As you can always assume that you rolled a 6 instead of the average 3 when finding highest level)

If city state has so many statted PCs to overflow the system, even if you change some from fighter to warriors and rogues to experts, that could be a slight problem, only if the DM was going to use every single NPC in the book.
 

Ok, Errant replied in the hour I had my reply screen open. Teaches me to do two things at once.

Do you have Five Nations? There is a 1/2 page blurb about Thronehold/Throneport, and I can't tell from your comments if you've seen it or not?

Edit: nevermind,, youre asking for the map of the City State. got it.
 

The City State is on a river which is on two sides of the city. The NPC levels start at 20th for the Invincible Overlord himself and then go down to a more normal distribution. There are a fair number of locations detailed in the city, which has a very non-PC feel (slave market, houris, etc).

I don't know Eberrron to comment on suitability for that setting.
 

Just dug out Five Nations and found that Thronehold blurb. Helpful but not really conclusive. Pretty much confirmed what I'd already deduced - except for the 'small city' rating. Which I have no trouble adjusting to the current population rating like I think I indicated previously.

More asking for comments on the map Stevelabny, & opinions about transplanting it.

Thanks MonsterMash - Eberron's Thronehold is the more-or-less abandoned former capital of the Five Nations (former provinces of the Kingdom of Galifar, now the dominant realms of the continent of Khorvaire that have just come out of a century long civil war). Situated on an island in a sound/inlet near the centre of the continent, it consists of Castle Thronehold and the small city of Throneport the grew up in the castle's shadow. An independant territory not subject to any of the Five Nations' rule it has become neutral ground and a hot bed of intrigue since the war's end. The castle itself is protected by a dedicated guard (the Throne Wardens) but Throneport appears to be largely ungoverned.

As far as I know thats about the entire official story.

I'm interested in running some adventures in Thronehold, but personally I've always found a good map provides great inspiration. If the CSIO is a close enough fit, with the added bonus of detailed locations, it might be just what the doctor ordered.

If anyone knows another good city map I can get hold of that would suit that'd be cool too! :cool:
 

Look at a rough version of the CSIO map here. The city is walled, except for an inexplicable break in the harbor region. It's got the citadel of the Overlord. It's got lots of detailed locations. I'm not sure whether it works on a small island.
 

Ah, thanks Turjan.

I'm hoping thats a very rough version. That map doesn't look much like something worth EN World RPG Award, but it seems close enough to what I want.
 

The original is a black&white foldout map 4 times the cover's size. It's not really suited for the players, because it's actually detailled down to the interior rooms of the houses. It contains 361 numbered locations.
 

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