[Clarification] "On Failed Save" Effects, Action Surge

[haran.banjo]

Hello,

I'm in dire need of a couple of rules clarification.

"On First/Second Failed Save" effects, such as the one caused by the Sleep spell, sounds a bit confusing to me.
What happens if I am a target of a Sleep spell and, before my first "end-of-round" save, the party Cleric uses Sacred Flame to make me roll a saving throw - and I miss? Do I take the penalties of the "first failed save" or these apply only to end-of-round saving throws?

"Action Surge" and similar "bonus" to hit/damage when using an action point.
Is it possible to use the Action Point IMMEDIATELY at the beginning of your round, in order to gain the bonus for 2 standard actions and 1 minor action?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Mengu]

"On First/Second Failed Save" effects, such as the one caused by the Sleep spell, sounds a bit confusing to me.
What happens if I am a target of a Sleep spell and, before my first "end-of-round" save, the party Cleric uses Sacred Flame to make me roll a saving throw - and I miss? Do I take the penalties of the "first failed save" or these apply only to end-of-round saving throws?

By RAW, yes you do take the penalties when you first fail the save regardless of when you failed it. Some people have houseruled it otherwise.

"Action Surge" and similar "bonus" to hit/damage when using an action point.
Is it possible to use the Action Point IMMEDIATELY at the beginning of your round, in order to gain the bonus for 2 standard actions and 1 minor action?

No. The bonus only applies to actions you gain by spending the action point (typically one standard action).

 

[haran.banjo]

Thank you Mengu.

By RAW, yes you do take the penalties when you first fail the save regardless of when you failed it. Some people have houseruled it otherwise.

That's what I thought. I'll houserule it too, no big issue.
Seems kinda wrong that a power such as Hobgoblin Resiliance can be WORSE than not having it at all.

No. The bonus only applies to actions you gain by spending the action point (typically one standard action).

Well, many of the feats/features related to Action Points have a "until the end of your round" or "until the beginning of your next round", so I believe that they can be used for other purposes.
What I'm asking in other words is WHEN you can use an Action Point. At the start of your round? Or only when you have no (Standard) actions left?

 

[Mengu]

Well, many of the feats/features related to Action Points have a "until the end of your round" or "until the beginning of your next round", so I believe that they can be used for other purposes.
What I'm asking in other words is WHEN you can use an Action Point. At the start of your round? Or only when you have no (Standard) actions left?

Using an action point is a free action that you can do any time during your turn. So yes, there may be some other benefits of using an action point early depending on your powers, items, etc.

But in the case of action surge, it doesn't matter when you use it. It specifically says "during any action you gain by spending an action point." So any actions you take after that, don't have the bonus.

 

[haran.banjo]

Using an action point is a free action that you can do any time during your turn. So yes, there may be some other benefits of using an action point early depending on your powers, items, etc.

But in the case of action surge, it doesn't matter when you use it. It specifically says "during any action you gain by spending an action point." So any actions you take after that, don't have the bonus.

Thank you again Mengu

My mistake, I specifically listed Action Surge while I meant exactly what you explained right now.

/bow and thanks!