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<blockquote data-quote="kugelkj" data-source="post: 5081072" data-attributes="member: 84988">I couldn't disagree more... the order of the rules:Area Attacks and Close Attacks (specific)Reach (specific)Creatures and Cover (specific)Determining Cover (general)specifically governs every situation in which creatures provide cover at all (superior cover is just excessive for reasons discussed in previous posts).&nbsp; Specifically, creatures are excluded from all circumstances RE: Determining cover, except in the case of a ranged attack. Period.Then we get:Keep Out of Sight: If you no longer have any cover or concealment against an enemy, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy. You don’t need superior cover, total concealment, or to stay outside line of sight, but you do need some degree of cover or concealment to remain hidden. You can’t use another creature as cover to remain hidden.Specifically, excludes creatures in this circumstance from allowing cover again.Two specific rules exclude creatures from interacting with the covers rules , except in the case of a ranged attack. Period.Why jump through these mental hoops to get to another situation, Hidden, that is completely unsustainable anyway.&nbsp; Find a better way to get CA: (mix and match for maximum effectiveness):Use terrain to get coverFlank (this is sweet and easy to do)Bluff (Create a Diversion to Hide)Pact Initiate (Eyebite)Gnome (Fade Away)Warlock (Shadow Walk)Rogue (Utility Powers for a specialist)Distant Advantage (Feat)...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kugelkj, post: 5081072, member: 84988"] I couldn't disagree more... the order of the rules: Area Attacks and Close Attacks (specific) Reach (specific) Creatures and Cover (specific) Determining Cover (general) specifically governs every situation in which creatures provide cover [I]at all[/I] (superior cover is just excessive for reasons discussed in previous posts). Specifically, [U]creatures[/U] are [U]excluded[/U] from all circumstances RE: Determining cover, [B]except in the case of a ranged attack[/B]. Period. Then we get: Keep Out of Sight: If you no longer have any cover or concealment against an enemy, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy. You don’t need superior cover, total concealment, or to stay outside line of sight, but you do need some degree of cover or concealment to remain hidden. [B]You can’t use another creature as cover to remain hidden.[/B] Specifically, [U]excludes creatures[/U] in this circumstance from allowing cover [B]again[/B]. Two specific rules exclude creatures from interacting with the covers rules , [B]except in the case of a ranged attack[/B]. Period. Why jump through these mental hoops to get to another situation, Hidden, that is completely unsustainable anyway. Find a better way to get CA: (mix and match for maximum effectiveness): Use terrain to get cover Flank (this is sweet and easy to do) Bluff (Create a Diversion to Hide) Pact Initiate (Eyebite) Gnome (Fade Away) Warlock (Shadow Walk) Rogue (Utility Powers for a specialist) Distant Advantage (Feat)... [/QUOTE]

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