Class abilities vs Talents (or both?)

[RigaMortus2]

I wonder if they are removing class abilities and replacing them with the Talent system from SW: Saga? Or perhaps they are going to have both?

 

[Merlion]

I wonder if they are removing class abilities and replacing them with the Talent system from SW: Saga? Or perhaps they are going to have both?

I sincerely hope its some of both. Some classes need to simply have some abilities.

 

[Klaus]

I wonder if they are removing class abilities and replacing them with the Talent system from SW: Saga? Or perhaps they are going to have both?

Some classes are likely to have a few abilities that are simply so iconic of the class that every member should have them. For instance, I think all Rangers will get Tracking, so it should be a class ability, not a Talent Tree.

 

[KarinsDad]

I doubt it.

I suspect that the Talent tree with Tracking on it will be a Ranger Talent Tree, but I seriously doubt that class abilities will even exist. The reason is that in order to balance the game, each class will need to get the same number of talents and feats, and I could see class abilities throwing that balance off (especially spell casting).

Another alternative is that Tracking might become a feat that Rangers get for free at first level.


I hope that spell casting becomes feats / talents which force spell casters to take the appropriate feats or talents in order to cast spells of certain levels. The game mechanics should be the same for all classes.

 

[Klaus]

I doubt it.

I suspect that the Talent tree with Tracking on it will be a Ranger Talent Tree, but I seriously doubt that class abilities will even exist. The reason is that in order to balance the game, each class will need to get the same number of talents and feats, and I could see class abilities throwing that balance off (especially spell casting).

Another alternative is that Tracking might become a feat that Rangers get for free at first level.


I hope that spell casting becomes feats / talents which force spell casters to take the appropriate feats or talents in order to cast spells of certain levels. The game mechanics should be the same for all classes.

"Tracking might become a feat that Rangers get for free at first level" means Tracking is a class ability.

 

[drothgery]

FWIW, tracking in SWSE is rolled into the Survival skill; you don't need a feat to be able to track. There are Scout talents that make you a better tracker.

 

[Merlion]

I hope that spell casting becomes feats / talents which force spell casters to take the appropriate feats or talents in order to cast spells of certain levels. The game mechanics should be the same for all classes.

I think we can almost certainly say this will not happen. Spellcasting in D&D has always been a basic built in class feature of the classes that have it. And nothing that we have heard indicates that this will change.

As for the mechanics should be the same for all classes and the talents and all..

I suspect that the Talent tree with Tracking on it will be a Ranger Talent Tree, but I seriously doubt that class abilities will even exist. The reason is that in order to balance the game, each class will need to get the same number of talents and feats, and I could see class abilities throwing that balance off (especially spell casting).

I havent heard the designers say anything about "talent trees." We know that all classes will be getting more abilities, combat maneuvers (I know thats spelled wrong) , per encounter stuff etc, but as near as I can tell it will still be class abilities. In some cases, probably class abilities were you get to choose from several options at the level at which it becomes available.

 

[KarinsDad]

"Tracking might become a feat that Rangers get for free at first level" means Tracking is a class ability.

Not exactly.

If it is a first level feat (as opposed to a higher level class feat), then other classes can get it without taking a level of Ranger.

And if a character multiclasses into Ranger, he might not get it (if they use the Star Wars system where multiclassing only gains one feat out of a group of several).

A Class Ability could be defined as something that one has to take the class to acquire, or it could be defined as something automatically acquired if someone takes enough levels in the class.

A first level feat in Star Wars (and presumably 4E) does not necessarily fall under either of these two definitions.

An example of a Class Ability in 3E is the Monk AC bonus. All Monks get this ability at first level.


It is only if Class Ability is defined as something someone can acquire by going into a given class that your statement would be true. But, I do not define Class Ability this way if Tracking becomes a feat because one need not enter the class to gain the ability and for this discussion, I am using the term Class Abilities to mean abilities that are gained by going up levels in a class (like in 3E) and a significant reason to go into the class is to gain those abilities. That means Talents and Class Feats, not normal feats.

In Star Wars, Talents and Class Feats can be considered Class Abilities, however, the feats acquired at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, etc. are not Class Feats. They are generic feats that any character can gain. I suspect that 4E will be similar.

 

[KarinsDad]

FWIW, tracking in SWSE is rolled into the Survival skill; you don't need a feat to be able to track. There are Scout talents that make you a better tracker.

Which makes sense.

4E will probably do the same where Survival is a Ranger class skill (if Rangers are a core class), but available to few other classes.

 

[Merlion]

Not exactly.

If it is a first level feat (as opposed to a higher level class feat), then other classes can get it without taking a level of Ranger.

And if a character multiclasses into Ranger, he might not get it (if they use the Star Wars system where multiclassing only gains one feat out of a group of several).

A Class Ability could be defined as something that one has to take the class to acquire, or it could be defined as something automatically acquired if someone takes enough levels in the class.

A first level feat in Star Wars (and presumably 4E) does not necessarily fall under either of these two definitions.

An example of a Class Ability in 3E is the Monk AC bonus. All Monks get this ability at first level.


It is only if Class Ability is defined as something someone can acquire by going into a given class that your statement would be true. But, I do not define Class Ability this way if Tracking becomes a feat because one need not enter the class to gain the ability and for this discussion, I am using the term Class Abilities to mean abilities that are gained by going up levels in a class (like in 3E) and a significant reason to go into the class is to gain those abilities. That means Talents and Class Feats, not normal feats.

In Star Wars, Talents and Class Feats can be considered Class Abilities, however, the feats acquired at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, etc. are not Class Feats. They are generic feats that any character can gain. I suspect that 4E will be similar.

That may be, although I dont think it will be identical to that.

You can bet that spellcasting classes will simply get their spellcasting, like always. It also seems clear that at least the "at will" abilities we have heard about will be outside a system like you describe. I have a feeling the per encounter ones will be as well.

I think you can also bet, as I said earlier, that certain classes will retain iconic class abilities. It sounds to me as though it will essentially be as it is now, but characters will gain more abilites, and have more instances especially probably the melee types, to choose one from several choices of abilites, rather than get a single static ability.